To think people on middle incomes are forgotten about?

[Squeezedout]

I am so upset tonight and just need to vent. I have always worked, as has my partner. We have 2 children who we could provide for until my industry pretty much collapsed and I had to find a less well paid job.

The cost of childcare and rent (south east) is absolutely crazy and I can’t keep up. I put in an application for universal credit that said we’d be entitled to a few hundred a month so have jumped through every single hoop, taken unpaid days off work to attend a job centre (the irony!)

Only to find out now (6 weeks after the initial claim) that we are entitled to roughly £4.50 a month.

On paper maybe we have decent salaries, combined with the rent and childcare we can’t even break even each month. I know we are not alone.

It seems in this country that if you are the poorest of society, you are helped (in terms of council properties with decent rent, council tax help, 2 year funding and everyday benefits as well as lots of media attention to the problem) to ensure you have enough to live on. If you’re the richest in society, you obviously don’t need help but the squeezed middle are just completely forgotten about.

I am NOT benefit bashing at all but It really doesn’t pay to work sometimes. I’ve calculated how much better off I’d be as a single mum not working in a council house and tbh I cannot keep taking out loans and am starting to think this is the only option to keep my kids fed.

AIBU to think the ‘squeezed middle’ are completely forgotten about in this country? And that it is fucked up that I can’t feed my kids on an average wage?

@thedancingbear "inflation is bad" do you not understand economics? Please don't make such simplistic and uneducated statements.

I don;t understand this thread.

People are saying that you choose where you live and it's the fault of the person for living in the SE. But we could easily break this down further and say you shouldn't have had kids then, you chose to have kids.

It's ludicrous. Funny how so many other countries (Scandi mainly) have good worklife balance, good childcare, good housing systems. It is possible to have it all, it's the system that is fucked.

@BarbariansMum the OP is taking out loans to survive, that's scraping by. Do you think that sounds ok?

Sure you're not homeless but really, that's what we should put as the marker

Funny how so many other countries (Scandi mainly) have good worklife balance, good childcare, good housing systems. It is possible to have it all, it's the system that is fucked

Yeah but they have a COMPLETELY different dynamic over there and they pay waaay more tax!! And it is actually expensive to live there.

Mousewire- I agree with a lot of that but the moment you start quoting other countries, you have the usual outcry that many of these countries expect both parents to work; childcare is heavily subsidised and often it’s the norm for mothers to return to work earlier than they do in the U.K.

No personal axe to grind here - I was back at work when dd1 was 12 weeks old - but a lot of people would complain; I’ve seen it hundreds of times on here

Instead, we need targeted action to address the cost of housing & childcare.

Those aren't so much of a problem outside London/SE.

What IS needed is a plan to stop the ever increasing London-centric thinking of big employers and government. Spread the jobs over the UK more fairly and the SE housing crisis will be considerably eased. At the moment, huge numbers of young people from all over the UK are moving to London for work and that's simply unsustainable.

No of course not, I am just pointing out that people on the thread seem to have quite different ideas of what constitutes struggling.

With regards to the OP and thousands like her in the SE increasing benefits are not the answer. Whilst so many people are competing for not enough housing rent prices will go up and up. You can't build your way out of it, not in one highly populated area. You could cap rents, you can redistribute wealth across the country. But just paying more public money into a system to line the pockets of the wealthiest (not the OP, the people she pays her money to) won't work.

@Kazzyhoward totally agree - this has been going on (London drift) all my life and it’s a ridiculous Ponzi scheme

And yes as pp said they pay way more tax. There’s an upside and downside to every situation and policy

FWIW I think the real issue is that wages aren’t high enough and there isn’t a big enough differential between the lowest paid job and being unemployed. Not in real terms of what you can afford, and what your life looks like day to day.

The welfare system should always be to support those who cannot work. Unfortunately the introduction of tax credits (a bad move in my opinion) heralded an era when some people’s view of benefits changed massively from something which you only relied on as a last resort if you were unable to support yourself, to a kind of ‘pick n mix’ where you calculate the minimum you can afford to work and the maximum you can afford to take out. If there’s very little tangible difference between your lifestyle working full time in a low paid job, and your lifestyle if you work only part time or not at all - you can see why people think bugger this.

Trouble is, that’s the benefits trap I mentioned earlier.... it might seem an ok existence- not great, but ok- in the here and now but it does nothing to secure your future. Basically you’re at the whims of whatever govt policy happens to be. Just look at the problems that welfare reform is causing so far- and it’s not likely to get any better.

No of course not, I am just pointing out that people on the thread seem to have quite different ideas of what constitutes struggling.

Maybe, but lots of us do. On middle incomes. Especially when there is only 1 persons wage coming in.

As a lone parent you cant pick up extra hours or work weekends. I have to hope and pray I get promoted at some point. You cant cover all or most of the holidays on the cheap.

I mean, I am grateful I am having a difficult time, mentally. I have been signed off work and wont be back for at least 8 weeks. That means I dont have to borrow money to pay for holiday club or spend fortunes on petrol for work. But I wont have money to do anything but free stuff.

OP I totally agree with you and understand exactly where you're coming from!

You may only qualify for £4.50 a week universal credit, but check to see if that £4.50 entitles you to free prescriptions, eye tests, payment towards glasses, free school meals, money off your council tax, money towards fuel bills. Very often even getting a penny of benefit entitles you to other things that in effect increase that penny by a lot. Check on entitledto.co.uk for more information.

@Gatoadigrado I agree I think uk wages are shocking!! Primary Teachers in Ireland start on 36K+ and work up the scales and can earn 60k+ with no extra responsibilities. I have a 16 yr old cousin who has a summer job in Clarke’s shoes at nearly €11 an hour. I always find it staggering that ppl in uk can work 9-5 office jobs for min wage.

A lot of it is down to rates of tax and NI on low to middle earners being too high.

£30K pa is not a massive salary anymore. It's only about £4k more than the national average. But someone who earned that would pay over £500 a month in income tax and NI, and would take home less than £2k a month. What that person pays in income tax and NI every month is the equivalent to a quarter of their take home pay.

And at that kind of income, £500 a month is a lot of money.

Around 60 percent of all earners in Britain are on this kind of salary or less. Only about 10 percent of the country earns over £50K pa.

Put simple, this country is not run with the financial situation of the majority of its populace in mind, which are pretty much people earning between £20K and £40K pa: i.e. the squeezed middle. It's even more difficult for those earning between £26K and £36K with child care responsibilities that dictate one parent has to work reduced hours or no hours at all, or they have to fund the cost of full-time childcare.

BarbariansMum Wed 10-Jul-19 14:03:49
Why are people having to be grateful about just scraping by

Define "just scraping by"

A roof over your head, food on the table, clothes on your back, access to healthcare and education and some time off each week/ year sounds like success to me. What do you think the basics should be?

I wish we had a thanks button on here , this post is perfect
I quite by chance came about a series called 'til debt us do part ' Its a Canadian programme and it deals with couples who are completely unaware that they overspend , until they write it all down and realise that the odd bit here and there really mount up
The only solution is to spend less or earn more , you cannot expect the government to support the lifestyle you wish for yourself , and if that means you go without , then so be it ...life isnt always fair

The only solution is to spend less or earn more , you cannot expect the government to support the lifestyle you wish for yourself , and if that means you go without , then so be it ...life isnt always fair

If only it was that easy. A quarter if my weekly budget goes on petrol. Because my child didnt get into the nearest school. The school he is in is 2 buses away.

To be able to get to work and him to school, its costs a fortune. Its not actually that far. But rural buses are shocking as are the road links to major route.

From the remaining money I have to pay gas, electric and water and food for the week. Plus extras such as hairs cuts, school trips etc

My best friend is a sahp. Her husband earns less than me but they are far more disposable income. Because of tax credits. So yes sometimes it does feel unfair.

For some people, earning more or spending less isnt possible.

Do you apply the same logic to low earners too? You shouldnt get help. You should spend less or earn more.

Spot on packingsoapandwater

We don’t earn massive salaries! £45k between us.

We don’t get help with prescriptions/dentals which to me feels like I can’t afford the basics. I didn’t go to the drs last month when I should’ve as I knew I couldn’t afford the prescription.

Yes, people have it harder. I wasn’t bashing people solely on benefits, my point was that people accept that those people are poor and they get help/attention and people focus on the fact they need it. When you’re in this position it’s like you’re seen as rich and everyone’s wiped their hands of it cus you’re alright.

We could afford kids when we had them, I can’t return them now DP works 6 days a week already.

Moving isn’t that easy, our families are here along with our jobs. We’re not in London and actually not in a hugely (by comparison!) expensive part of the SE either and in a 2 bed terrace.

I know it would be stupid to leave my job etc but I feel backed into a corner. Obviously my kids will never go hungry, if that means not paying the bills then so be it. Just feels so shit. We both work to the point we barely see the kids and can’t even afford to take them to the frickin ice cream van when we do see them.

Youngandfree, where is the 16 Yr old getting that in clarks, I worked there and its min wage or just slightly above. Are you sure about them getting that?

@ssd in Ireland as stated in my post, yes she told me it’s €10.92 per hour.

That's amazing money, I didn't realise wages were so high in Ireland.

I get tax credit help (but nothing else). I’m very envious of those who have wages that pay enough to not be in the ‘system’ even if they aren’t actually getting any more money than me in take home. I desperately want to get to a point where I can earn enough to support my family on a single wage without help.

I realise it’s frustrating working and not being better off than someone getting help but at least you aren’t caught in a system that changes so quickly or like me, looking at losing money when the children grow up leaving you unable to pay basic outgoings 🙁.

@ssd yes she did well tbh some of her friends work in a cafe and the are on €9

I once worked in a pharmaceutical company as a student in tablet inspection and I got a basic of 850 a fortnight....that was 10-12 years ago, I did it for two summers and paid my uni registration fee (university was “free” here then) etc

What do you class as middle income?

Squeezedout I get you. There were many years when I couldn’t afford to go to the dentist, or would go without a prescription for example, which I would count as pretty basic expectations for a professional living in 21st century U.K.
( as an aside I needed two prescription items earlier this week. £18. Yes I can afford it now - kids grown up - but it’s a fucking disgrace that many people can’t, yet don’t qualify for concessions)