AIBU in thinking if you have a Council house and the Council are modernising it you shouldn't really moan about it?!

[Mydietstartstomorrow]

So I'm in B&M in the queue listening to a customer moan on and on about how the Council have only given her 3 weeks notice that she is getting a new kitchen and bathroom fitted and this is totally unacceptable and how it's going to disrupt her life! Checkout lady then moans that she contacted her Housing Association to find out she's not entitled to a new bathroom for some time yet. AIBU to think some people feel so entitled? What about the people (me) who own their own home and cant currently ever imagine having the money to have a new kitchen and bathroom fitted?! Oh, and the loft was being insulated also!

@Passthecherrycoke Every year she does the same thing.

She phones and reminds them she doesn’t have gas. They say “oh of course, sorry, ignore the letter”. She writes to them as well, just to be sure, as they are hopeless.

Then she gets the more stern “we must have access letter” so she phones and writes again. They apologise, but still she gets the one that threatens court order and the door being put in.

Three years ago after the threat of that she involved her MP at that point and they apologised. Flowers, chocolates and and promise it wouldn’t happen again.

Two years ago at the point of the next letter she phoned the gas company and told them they could come when she was in and see for themselves that there’s no gas, as she had a terminally ill husband and couldn’t deal with the hassle. The HA thanked her, said it was a system thing and promised they’d sort it.

Last year she got her MP involved and refused to let them in. The HA were so apologetic. Letter of apology, flowers and chocolates. They asked if someone could check the smoke alarms as it’s normally done at the same time which was all organised fine. The promised there would be no more gas check letters.

So no, she’s not just been passive. They’re just hopeless.

They’re the biggest HA around here and she’s far from the only one with problems with them.

Haha. I just read the gov.uk link all the way down.

Turns out that the cost of maintenance projects like this may expressly reduce your potential discount on RTB...

If your landlord has spent money on your home
Your discount will be less if your landlord has spent money building or maintaining your home:

in the last 10 years - if your landlord built or acquired your home before 2 April 2012
in the last 15 years - if you’re buying your home through Preserved Right to Buy, or if your landlord acquired your home after 2 April 2012

So these 'free' kitchens in the properties council tenants pay to rent are doubly not free, wouldn't you say?

Yes, all RTBs will have a cost floor which you wouldn't be able sell below that price. For example, if £10k was spent on the property in the last 15 years, you wouldn't be able to buy it for less than £10k.

@Passthecherrycoke

You know what, this is part of the reason HAs/ councils sometimes don’t take tenants seriously- many seem to know next to nothing about maintenance of their own property and rental terms, and make ridiculous conspiracy theory sounding statements like this.

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. I private rented for years before getting this HA place, and the rules are totally different, though the contract pretty similar to all those I've ever had. And you're often dealing with multiple people across different departments, and things get lost and distorted along the way.
For example after the roof was replaced, I rang and asked if I am allowed to plaster the walls, the damp has ruined them in places, and my contract says I need permission for anything other than basic decoration. I thought it best to check. The guy on the phone said he'd send an inspector out, the inspector was baffled as to why he was there and told me anything I want to do I need to submit a form which will be approved or denied and then I can get on with it or not. If the guy in the office didn't know, and no where in my paperwork does it say about this form - or online btw, I looked, it just says ring, then how am I supposed to? It made me look like I was trying to get something out of them I shouldn't to that inspector, but in private rent you'd not be allowed to paint without permission, never mind plaster.
I also think a lot of people in social housing are the most vulnerable from society, and may have poor education, poor understanding of how these things work because no one has ever told them, and they don't know they need to find out because apparently it's all there in your service, only it's not, I'm just lucky that I can deal with stuff like that - but they still made me look like I was after something I'm not by asking a question about what I'm allowed to do. And that I think is because of the stigma attached. I get looks, disbelieving snorts and got outright laughed at once for trying to change appointments because I was at work, and some of the contractors I've had have confirmed they get sent to jobs and catch people on their way to work, and have told the office but that information is ignored or mocked. In the words of one contractor
"They do it all the time luv, they think you all sit at home popping out babies and smoking weed all day"
While that kind of attitude is within the organisation, there's no hope of social housing tenants being treated like human beings.

You make a great point crusty and I don’t disagree with you at all. Large organisations can be hard to navigate- I’ve nearly had a panic attack trying to deal with British Gas before- but it is frustrating to hear all these fallacies and conspiracy theories from people who claim they do know what they’re talking about, and advises others on that basis

Excellent post crusty! Living in Council or HA property is often very difficult, I've heard that said often and your post confirms it.

PS Sorry about the two 'oftens' . I don't often repeat words in one sentence .

I think the main problem is the perception of social/council tenants, and the system around that.
Many People don't actually know how it works because they've never dealt with it, and go on hearsay and rumours.
I private rented for a long time, and for some of that time I was in receipt of housing benefit - 'getting my rent paid' however there was no where near the attitude towards private rent as there is sh. While in sh I've always paid the rent myself, as I've not needed Hb, yes the rent is slightly lower than private (I'll come to that) but on balance I probably received more help while in private rent than I have in social housing. Yet I face more stigma as a sh tenant.
And in sh you get less than in private rent. In any situation, wouldn't you expect to pay less for getting less? In private rent I've had carpets, fixtures, fittings, it's been redecorated before I moved in and was on me moving out (not at my expense as it was fair wear and tear) an oven and even some white goods in some properties. None of that happens in sh, I moved in to someone else's decor and no carpets or flooring except tatty lino in the kitchen and bathroom. I've put the carpets down, bought the oven, started to redecorate. It's not a problem for me to do those things at all, it's nice to have the choice and the freedom to make my house my own. However the way I see it is a private LL charges more because they provide those things, a social LL doesn't, therefore that's one reason they charge less.
And when it comes to bathrooms and kitchens being refitted, well would the attitude be the same for a private rent, if you'd lived there 25 years and they were wearing out and breaking and the LL wanted to replace to keep the place suitable to live in? It's unusual that private tenants stay that long for a variety of reasons, and more usual that a sh tenant does (the biggest draw for me for sh is the security) it's no different to that happening in social housing, except the perception. The tenant in private rent would still be getting a 'free' bathroom, and if their rent is paid through Hb, that's been subsidised by the tax payer. But the perception would be different, it'd be seen as the tenant pays their rent and deserves a decent place to live.
I'm in no way slating anyone in private rent that is receipt of Hb, I hope it doesn't come across like that. My point is that you've got people who haven't got a clue how these things work being derogatory towards anyone in social housing, based on believing half truths and things that don't happen.

it's no different to that happening in social housing, except the perception.

I agree. It is normal for decent landlords to refurbish bathrooms and kitchens if necessary between tenancies, so they can let it again! Council tenants aren't getting one over private tenants there. It's just that if some private tenants don't see it happening- because it happened before they moved in!- they think council housing tenants are getting more than they are.

As I said earlier on the thread, I've rented private properties from professional landloards with lovely kitchens and bathrooms. Estate agents draw your attention to the "throughly up to date kitchen" on the initial viewing of properties!

Well quite Jamie when we private rented the kitchen was lovely ,all integral oven, fridge freezer ,washing machine etc, granite work tops ,extractor fan, tiled floor, compare that to my housing association house ,units that the doors are falling off , cheap work tops that are falling to bits etc and all the white goods ,we have provided ,whilst I'm glad of the security it just doesn't compare .

There are some dreadful private rentals out there and many that are just middle of the road. The only difference between them and the HA is flooring and a bit better decoration. You then have to find the bond, never be quite sure when your tenancy will be terminated and often have to fight for repairs.

@Crustytoenail Fab post Ive been saying the same on here for many years.

Many HA tenants have to fight for repairs

"They do it all the time luv, they think you all sit at home popping out babies and smoking weed all day""

Then why on earth do some HAs continue to allocate flats to druggies and dealers
We have a major problem with it on my estate We never used to.

It seemed to coincide with the time that starter tenancies were brought in.

The tenant underneath us smokes really strong dope. It stinks It makes my eyes smart His windows are open So are mine as it is July.

Its really really sharp and pungent.

We have had it the past four nights on the trot

its been going on since last year.

The Guardian started to cover some of the issues then it went quiet when the snap election was called. Then obvs after that ..........Grenfell

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2901354-Housing-associations-Are-you-having-problems

My friend's partially sighted mum had her family wedding rings stolen from her bedside cabinet by a contractor brought in to fit a new kitchen in her council house (he said he was going upstairs to use the toilet). By that logic, she shouldn't have reported him to the police?

@Petitprince emm not really. That’s pretty sh*t behaviour stealing your mums wedding ring.

The difference between social housing and private rented housing is that social housing is subsidised to provide cheaper rents (the government give grants to both councils and housing associations to provide housing). So it’s a social resource in a way that private housing is not. Also in England (not in Scotland or Wales) social housing has the right to buy and a secure tenancy that you don’t get in private rented accommodation. So we are all paying for social housing through our taxes, even when the beneficiaries are not in need.

Here we go with the benevolent masters V. the serfs in social housing rhetoric.

In 2010 the Government removed subsidies for social rent homes.

So why is there the continued insistence on here and elsewhere that social housing is subsidized

www.cfoi.org.uk/2017/07/bring-housing-associations-and-public-service-contractors-under-foi/
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HelenaDove Mon 16-Jul-18 20:44:03

"Housing associations are not subject to the FOI Act and can refuse to answer requests about fire risks, safety problems, eviction policies, waiting lists and other matters.

Examples of requests for information which housing authorities have refused include:

the cause of a fire in a housing association flat, requested by a neighbouring tenant [1]
whether potentially toxic lead pipes were used for the water supply to a property [2]
the amount of flytipped waste and litter collected from a housing association’s estates [3]
the number of repossession orders served since the ‘bedroom tax’ came into force, and the number of those tenants who had no arrears before that date [4]
the policy which permitted an association to pack up an evicted tenant’s possessions and confidential documents instead of allowing him to collect them [5]
the number of properties adapted for disabled persons (the requester said she wanted: ‘just the number, nothing else’) [6]
the number of asylum seekers housed [7]
the number of properties empty for more than 6 weeks [8]
the electricity bill which led a tenant to be charged £1,200 to cover the costs of 6 communal light bulbs [9]
the make and model of street lighting on an estate which the requester found ‘overpowering’ at night. He wanted to use the information to contact the manufacturer to see if they could suggest a remedy [10]
details of a contract for emptying septic tanks shared by a housing association and privately owned properties. The requester, a private owner, wanted to know the basis on which he was being charged [11]
the numbers of complaints about repairs [12]
the circumstances in which tenants have been given permission to sublet and action taken against those subletting without permission [13]
the policy on dealing with requests for an individual’s own personal information under the Data Protection Act and the relevant application form [14]
the job description of the housing association’s Head of Governance [15]

Such information is routinely disclosed by local authorities in response to FOI requests. Most of the above requests were made through the whatdotheyknow.com website and referred to the FOI Act. This prompted many housing associations to point out that the Act did not apply to them. This would not have prevented them releasing information voluntarily and the fact that they didn’t do so is revealing. Typical comments included: “We do not wish to reply to your enquiry as we are not subject to the FOIA legislation” (Midland Heart); “As Wirral Partnership Homes LTD does not fall under the Freedom of Information Act we are not obligated to respond to your enquiry”; “Great Places Housing Group is not a public body under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act and is not under any obligation to respond to requests made under this legislation”; “Our client is not subject to the Freedom of Information Act and is therefore not obliged to answer a request made under that Act” (solicitor for Genesis Housing Group to a person who had been evicted).

In theory housing associations may be obliged to answer requests for environmental information under the Environmental Information Regulations (EIR). This might provide a right to information about fire safety decisions, such as those that led to Grenfell Tower disaster. But while the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) has ruled that housing associations in Northern Ireland are subject to the EIR but has made no such rulings in relation to English and Welsh housing associations, where the legal context is slightly different. In a number of cases it has dealt with informally it has concluded that the particular English housing associations concerned were not subject to the EIR. This uncertainty means that bringing housing associations under the FOI Act is the only way of ensuring that their decisions on fire safety and other critical issues are subject to scrutiny"

She might be getting a new kitchen and bathroom but she won't be getting the flooring or the rooms painted to go with it which leaves her with 2 new floors and 2 rooms that need decorated with 3 weeks notice.

She if she is lucky get some say in for example the colour of the doors or the countertop from probably a choice of 2 maybe 3 options but most likely she will just have to have what they say when they say it and tough if she's not happy.

I'm sick of the judgment from some people on here around social housing. So many people seem to have opinions that are so out of touch with the reality of both the people who live in social housing and the rules around it, quite frankly some of it is ridiculously ignorant!

Who are you classing as not in need there The NHS key workers including a midwife who have been priced out Its all in the Dispatches Getting Rich From the Housing Crisis ive linked upthread

Who exactly do you mean when you say in need. Because i have my suspicions about why, when a tenant moves or dies they are replaced with a druggie or a dealer. Its almost as if there is a sinister reason for trying to turn estates into ghettos.

Curiouser and curiouser

Path
‏ @PathDevon

Had a client turned down for social #housing because he's just started a zero hours job, so can't prove what he will earn every month.
So their affordability check has denied him the cheapest housing he could get, so he remains #homeless.