Help me get perspective on this school situation

[Needanickname1]

At my ds primary school there are children who have difficult behaviour, for a variety of reasons, as there are at all schools. As well as general disruptive behaviour, it is now normal to have physical violence in class (hitting, punching, throwing things at people), and also children being out of control in common areas of the school, to the point where other children are not allowed out of class or to walk past.

I understand that schools are struggling desperately with funding cuts and there are so few non mainstream schools around now. But is this normal in schools now? Does this happen in your school?

No this doesn't happen at my DCs schools (afaik). Have you spoken to the school about your concerns?

Yes this is common. Schools are imploding with the funding crisis.

Yes. It is the norm in most of the schools in my area (south east) due to austerity.

Thanks Tory voters.

It doesn't happen in my school but it does in lots of schools nearby. Many schools are reducing their support staff by at least half. Unfortunately poor behaviour is sometimes the consequence. Blame that and shoddy parenting of course.

I’ve worked in schools where that was normal (not acceptable of course, but it happened) but more schools where you just can’t imagine it happening at all. Very much depends on the catchment area I think. Extra staff do help as they can remove violent kids allowing the rest to get on. I think the bigger issue is actually poor mental health provision and in some cases, poor parenting (unpopular opinion).

What's with all the new posters starting school threads at the moment?

OP what you describe happens in some schools, but doesn't in most.

Anyone reading, it might be worth being cautious before sharing stories everyone as there's been quite a few of these 'just asking questions' school threads of late

This happened frequently in my last school. Kids kicking in lockers, panels out of windows, throwing over tables and chairs, removing table poles to be used as weapons, throwing stones at windows, screaming in corridors, kicking off in reception.

It’s not just an absence of support staff. We had those. They couldn’t control them either. It is the result of long-term inclusion strategies, low expectations for behaviour and disrespect for authority.

And shite parenting, natch.

Yep-blame the Government funding cuts.

There are no places in special schools, TAs are being made redundant left right and centre, teachers are leaving in droves, there are inadequate budgets and EHC plans are being rejected so there isn’t the higher level funding to pay for additional staff.

You should be very cross. Write to your MP.

Please complain. Even if it’s ‘normal’ it should not be acceptable and schools should be taking action to address it.

At the moment in the press and on MN schools seem to be scorned for taking any action to deal with poor behaviour and this needs to change.

Thank you for your replies. It is so sad. I cannit imagine having to go into my office and be subjected/witnessing to violence on a daily basis by my colleagues. It wouldn't be allowed either!

I blame funding cuts too.

My ds is being affected. In truth he is a sensitive personality, but has never suffer anxiety before. He is now clingy, anxious and tearful a lot of the time at school and sometimes after school too.

I have spoken to the school and whilst they are kind, lovely people and are providing him with support, they do not seem to be able to solve the problem, which frankly, is the behaviour of other children. My ds is a gentle boy who just wants to learn and play in relative peace. I dont think that is too much to ask for. I am considering moving schools. (His school also has poor results and no headteacher at present). But it seems like a big thing to do so I wanted to get some other opinions. He is keen to move which says a lot! My younger ds is less affected but I would move him too.

lolasmiles I have been on mumsnet for years. I have name changed for this because I dont want to be linked to my other posts.

This is just so sad, I am currently researching into all of our local schools to try to identify where best to send my son.
It disgusting that this is (if in fact it is) becoming acceptable, surely there is enough pressure on schools with budget cuts, teachers leaving in the masses.

I used to say the parents should be made to come in and supervise their own children if they couldn't behave in the school environment, that would soon stop kids displaying such a disrespect. But the obvious knock on effect would make that impossible.

I drastically worry about the future state of this country for my son.

Do whatever you can to place your child in a school where the HT and SLT are absolutely clear that they won’t have this type of behaviour. Go for a “zero tolerance” school if you have to (even though I hate the sound of those places). Better than your child being exposed to violence and fear.

Ten years ago, we relocated and the DC's new primary school was beset by similar issues of routine classroom violence. In the end, I raised it with the LA education dept and they addressed it very effectively. The whole school changed dramatically. (I don't imagine I was the only parent to express concern.) Try the school governers first. They rely on staff and parents to raise issues.

Some of these children will have supportive parents but severe mental health issues and there is no funding to support them.

Yes, it happens in a number of schools in a wide range of catchment areas.
Leafy and urban, m/c or deprived. North and South.
Large numbers of children with additional needs in pressured situations with little to no support due to funding cuts and curriculum expectations.

Surely bad behaviour in schools is due to poor parenting? If children don't learn respect for adults at home, what chance have teachers got?

This goes on in all the local schools I know, 20 or so, in Surrey. All very good schools, nice catchment. Funding cuts.

No such problems at my children’s primary. Very clear behaviour policy, zero tolerance. If you have a viable alternative locally I’d move your children now. Combination of behaviour issues, poor results and no HT is not a good one...

That’s true in a lot of cases, but not all. If parents don’t teach and model social skills or polite interaction, the schools have to try.

Surely bad behaviour in schools is due to poor parenting?

Very unlikely.

Children are more distressed in school because they are more stressed and anxious there. School staff don't have time to work out the root of the behaviour or the resources to address that when it's identified.

Schools rely more on sanctions to manage poor behaviour. Sanctions are widely recognised as an unsuccessful primary strategy for managing behaviour.

Schools will often prioritise provision for the whole cohort over SEN support. SEN budgets aren't ring-fenced so many cut support for individuals and use that money for whole class/school provision.

A minority of schools now try to squeeze children with SEN out altogether by not meeting their needs - it doesn't affect their notional budgets.

More and more parents are having to pull their distressed children out of education altogether because they have exhausted all other avenues and it is damaging their children's mental health.

Until the system is properly funded, more pupils will be affected by either being around distressed children in meltdown or by being left without support that they need to be able to access the curriculum.

Yes this is happening in my dcs school.

And I blame the Tories for their disgusting funding cuts and austerity which has damaged our economy and the life chances of so so many children. What happened to investing in the future?

Children are running riot, throwing stuff around, corridors are in lock down and the screaming from SN children is awful at times. My heart breaks for them!

And this is at primary school.

so many cut support for individuals and use that money for whole class/school provision

Not in our school. The funding pays for one to one TAs. General class TAs have been cut - the main cohort suffers.

I would look to change schools as soon as is practical. Don't feel guilty about it, sometimes you have do what is best for your child.