Help me get perspective on this school situation

[Needanickname1]

At my ds primary school there are children who have difficult behaviour, for a variety of reasons, as there are at all schools. As well as general disruptive behaviour, it is now normal to have physical violence in class (hitting, punching, throwing things at people), and also children being out of control in common areas of the school, to the point where other children are not allowed out of class or to walk past.

I understand that schools are struggling desperately with funding cuts and there are so few non mainstream schools around now. But is this normal in schools now? Does this happen in your school?

Funding cuts, support staff cuts, special schools full. There is a child like that in my family who is now out of education completely because they ended up being excluded because they couldn't cope in mainstream and no places in any special school up to a hour away. Likely to be going to independent specialist costing 70000 a year all because maintained schools aren't properly funded.

No point in individuals sticking to their guns if the next level up folds like a bad hand of cards.

I think there are lots of different issues here.

There are obviously some SEN children, where their difficult behaviour is not down to poor parenting. Some of those children would probably do better with one to one support or in a special school.

However, there are some children whose bad behaviour is obviously down to poor parenting. That’s very sad but you can’t blame the government for that completely.

Yes herculepoirot2

It’s a number of things- funding is one, lack off suitable provision (which is also funding) for children with severe additional needs, is another

. But I here are some children who are unused to boundaries because they haven’t had them at home.

Young ones who have not been told ‘no’
Older ones left to their own devices, who simply decide to do what they
choose. And they choose to behave in a manner that disrupts their class and their school.

We all have stories. We’ve all faced behaviour that is simply not acceptable. I’ve been wrestled to the ground, kicked so hard my leg was bruised from foot to knee for six weeks, sworn at, called all manner of names, accused of lying, even accused of telling a boy to jump out of a first floor window.

No point in individuals sticking to their guns if the next level up folds like a bad hand of cards.

Exactly. That is what needs to stop.

The school I'm a governor of is experiencing more and more of this. The HT had to hand out a part day exclusion to a Y2 child earlier this term - it broke her heart to do so but the child's behaviour made it unsafe for everyone for them to be in school.

She said they are experiencing more problems as a result of funding cuts everywhere, not just schools - there is no where for them to refer on to. Families who would have received interventions five yrs ago aren't anymore because the services don't exist. Shortage of social workers. That sort of thing - it's all coming together and creating this effect.

She said she feels it more and more in each new year group - this year's reception have been particularly challenging because of this.

So you’re complaining that the children who need support get it !!

If your child doesn’t need 1 to 1 support thank your lucky stars!!

Oh and the child I mentioned is 6 with several disabilities and the parents never wanted them in mainstream in the first place. Some children are being horrendously let down.

@herculepoirot2 I totally agree. Of course it’s not always bad parenting, but when you have children who have the full and unending support of their parents to disrupt lessons and verbally abuse staff, then that most certainly is bad parenting.

I’ve been called a cunt and I teach in a primary school. The consequences? They miss break/ lunchtimes. I firmly believe the best schools are the ones where SLT have clear behaviour expectations that they actually uphold, consequences are given and teachers aren’t undermined. Sadly there are far too many schools where this doesn’t happen.

You could be describing my 8 yr old. He has almost daily meltdowns at school, is violent on occasion, and destructive on a daily basis. He has an EHCP but the LA consider his needs best met in mainstream school as he has no learning difficulties (in fact he is G&T). The other parents from his class have a secret FB group set up to bitch about him and me.

He has ASD and we are waiting for an ADHD assessment.

When in the right environment with the right support, he is the sweetest gentlest child you could wish to meet. Mainstream school however, is not the right environment.

I want a place at an expensive special school for him. But we can't get the LA to even consider that, until we have evidence that he is failing in mainstream. Being unable to cope and rarely spending a full day in school isn't enough. They want to see that his actual learning is falling behind - but he is so intelligent that this isn't happening.

We are incredibly supportive parents, we always back the school, we work with the school extremely hard. I even have a previous model teenager to demonstrate that it isn't my parenting at fault.

So no, it's not "shitty parenting".

Its successive shitty governments and funding cuts and lack of understanding of the needs of complex children.

So no, it's not "shitty parenting".

Again, nobody is saying it is, in your specific case.

Yeah, but nobody knows the truth of why there are children behaving like this in their child's class.

I know there is a secret FB group where parents claim my child is a violent brat and that I'm to blame. I've seen screenshots. So actually, people love to judge and blame shitty parenting when they have no fucking clue about the struggles another family are facing.

They miss break/ lunchtimes.

Oh but talking about undermining teachers, here’s the British Psychological Society saying that it breaks their human rights.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/14/giving-children-detention-break-time-violation-human-rights/

It happens in my school. I can think of at least one child in almost every year group from nursery up who is a violent child. One nursery child prevented all the other EYFS children from going into the playground one afternoon because she was being threatening so 3 staff members had to keep her corralled there. Another time the office area was closed to anyone coming in or out due to an "upset" child essentially holding that area hostage. There aren't enough funds to allow us to provide the care every single child needs. I will say that only one of my examples was a child with SEN. The other child is just one who hasn't really had any boundaries at home and so will hit, kick, bite, throw to get their own way. Both children took up the time of 3-4 staff members just to deal with that one pupil.

My DC hasn't started school yet but I do worry about it when the time comes. There isn't enough money to help all those with SEN, let alone those with emotional or boundary issues and certainly not those children who have neither and tick along in school barely being noticed.

I'm glad I'm leaving teaching. It's becoming so hard to deal with.

I really am not a fan of the current government, but attempts to ‘blame’ them for these examples of poor behaviour are frankly bonkers.

The real dark days were between 2001 - 2009, with, you guessed it, Labour.

We live in a village with a huge social housing estate, there are some serious social problems here (parents in prison, drugs etc) but our primary school is rated Ofsted excellent and has almost zero behavioural issues on a day to day level.
It is a gorgeous place, a safe haven for lots of kids and the SLT are amazing.
It even has it's own farm!
Given the horrendous budget cuts and lack of parental support I genuinely have no idea how those teachers achieve what they do.

But we can't get the LA to even consider that, until we have evidence that he is failing in mainstream. Being unable to cope and rarely spending a full day in school isn't enough

You don't need to provide evidence that he is falling behind academically before he has a right to school provision that meets his needs.

Happy to help you with this by pm if you would like. I think I've done enough derailing of this thread already.

I blame them for a severely disabled 6 year old not having a school.

know there is a secret FB group where parents claim my child is a violent brat and that I'm to blame. I've seen screenshots. So actually, people love to judge and blame shitty parenting when they have no fucking clue about the struggles another family are facing.

But I am not speaking as a parent. I am speaking as a teacher, and I know the children I am talking about don’t have special needs. They have shit parents.

I genuinely have no idea how those teachers achieve what they do.

Our Ofsted outstanding village school does this by telling parents of children with SEND that they can't meet their needs and they would be better off in the school in the next village over.

They also have a policy of managing our children whose additional needs become apparent after they join the school.

It's been raised by multiple people with the LA and Ofsted but there seems to be little anyone can do.

Our Ofsted outstanding village school does this by telling parents of children with SEND that they can't meet their needs and they would be better off in the school in the next village over.

I honestly believe they are right, in the cases of children who suffer regular violent meltdowns. Mainstream schools generally can’t meet those sorts of needs.

I teach a class that has two kids called Luke in it. Opposite ends of the room. Without fail, when I, looking directly at the Luke in question, say ‘Luke, stop talking’ the other Luke will go ‘Urgh I wasn’t talking Miss god you’re always picking on me’.

And I’ll say ‘If you weren’t talking, then clearly I wasn’t talking to you, I was talking to the Luke who was talking’.

It feels like that on this thread.

God, this thread is so depressing. I did not realise that I have to count myself and ds so very, very lucky that this is not the norm at his school. There was never any justification for austerity in the first place except rabid right-wing, neo-liberal ideology.

No, the schools close to my home have good reputations for behaviour. Of course there will be some pupils who behave badly, that happens in every school but the school you have described sounds dreadful.
Iggly has hit nail on head.

Not normal in my local schools. I would be aghast by that behaviour.