To say postnatal wards are the least conducive environment for a mum/baby recovery

[cheesemumma]

Currently sitting on a ward at 11.30pm. 6th night. No exaggeration I think in total I must have had 4 hours sleep. My physical and mental health is suffering. I'm going to have to talk to the Drs tomorrow and say we're going home whatever, as we're getting more ill staying. Its not just the other selfish fucker couples that decide to talk on phone /watch films/ have conversations with each other but the staff seem to not give 2 shits it's the middle of the night. I realise my tiredness and hormones are a big contributing factor but I can feel a full tantrum /meltdown coming on. It's also 10000000 degrees and the enviable screaming babies plus the fact you get 3 teeny portions of food a day so I'm really hungry as ebf.

Nope. It falls to the staff, which as you can imagine they’re not very happy about. Most of them are really not happy about men staying overnight on the wards but they know things would be even worse for the patients if they didn’t. Plus the majority of patient feedback states they wanted their partners to stay (of course they did, they’d have had very little support without them there). The idea is that this way the partners can help with the basic stuff, and the staff can focus on medical needs, feeding support and helping those who don’t have a partner / whose partner is useless. To be honest there isn’t even enough staff for all that.

No it's obviously part of a wider issue if not enough staff on wards. I guess it's better that there are at least private spaces so women aren't forced to share spaces with strange men but it isn't great.

Unfortunately it’s the same in other areas of the NHS. When my twins were 9 weeks old one was admitted to paeds HDU as he had whooping cough. When you have a young child in the children’s ward, you have to be there 24/7 as there aren’t enough staff. Most of the ward is private rooms with a bed for a parent, but HDU is one room, three bays, each with a bed for the child and a plastic recliner. We were stuck in that room for 11 nights, I had basically no sleep, DH was at home looking after the other twin by himself so couldn’t take turns and I wasn’t even able to go home for a bath. Even taking a shower triggered an eye roll from staff because they were so under-staffed they couldn’t look after a tiny unwell baby properly for 10 minutes.

@SinkGirl I'm nodding to myself about everything you've said on this thread. I've cared for 4 of my 5 children on the children's ward when they were babies, toddlers and preteens. It felt like a luxury a few weeks ago when I was in with 11 year old ds2. When he was stable I could leave him watching tv or playing roblox while I went to the loo, bought a sandwich from the cafe or showered. It's really hard when you are on your own with a little one (or a 6 year old with learning difficulties who has a fascination with hospital equipment he shouldn't be touching!).

I was asked to volunteer on a committee who were trying to improve maternity services. I couldn't face having to be reminded of my births and postnatal experiences with my youngest 2 babies but maybe one day. I think what you do is brilliant and I hope you are able to improve things for the women giving birth in your hospital.

Ellietiny childrens wards are another form of no sleep torture and no rest.
The lights, struggling getting LO to sleep, staff wake them up. Dad's trying to hold the fort at home with other child. Trying to grab a sandwich when you can.

Thank you ellie - I had a really difficult time when my twins were born (no feeding support, two months in NICU for one of them) and I felt like once the babies are born your well-being as a mother is completely disregarded.

We’ve managed to make some really positive changes already, we are trialling a new postnatal pathway where women continue to get support from their midwife until 28 days post birth, which seems to be making a difference.

If people want to help push for change, do look up maternity voices in your area - many counties already have maternity voices partnerships set up, and if they don’t they will be aware that they should and you could be the first! You can also look up the National Maternity Voices website for more information.

Traditionally the NHS hasn’t listened to patients enough, and this is even more true where the patients are predominantly / entirely women. Some areas are involving patients far more, some have a long way to go but the impact is massive when they take it seriously. I started this role nearly 2 years ago now, and early on I spoke to a woman who’d had a really awful time and said she’d never have another baby. A lot of her feedback featured heavily in our early discussions and has directly led to change - in fact, I bumped into her recently and she’s having another baby.

Even if you don’t feel you can get involved in it yourself, it’s worth looking to see if there’s a maternity voices partnership in your area and sending them your feedback. We can only push for change when we know what the problems are.

This thread makes me so sad - I know it can be so much better than this and I know that the majority of maternity staff want to provide better care than is happening at the moment.

There's just this expectation that everyone has 'family or friends' to perform basic functions and care. Stupid when you consider that someone still has to look after the other kids at home, work, that many hospitals are now centralised and hence, can be hours from peoples' homes, etc.

I also hope we don't end up like those countries where each patient has to have a relative to come and do personal care. I'd be mortified to be washed and changed by a family member and mine all work anyway.

That appears to be the way we're going, Snuggy.

Thankyou @SinkGirl, maternity voices were the ones with the committee that I couldn't remember the name of. I have joined their facebook group and given feedback a few times. Maybe one day I will feel able to be more involved.

@SnuggyBuggy from my (limited) experience it seems it's already part way there. My OH had been with me through 72 hours of labour and was exhausted, and actually a bit traumatised to be honest and needed sleep. The best option was for him to go home and get a good night's rest, I asked the midwife on duty if when he leaves my mum would be able to help out overnight; she said no it's only birthing partners allowed outside of visiting hours (fair enough), but he can still go as people will be on duty all night. So he went home, the midwife on night shift came in and everything was okay, I only rang the buzzer once which was as baby had pooed absolutely everywhere and it was hard with one hand to sort it (I had a catheter and IV, and shouldn't have really been swinging round to pick up to feed but no one would help). 2am she says look everyone else has their partners here, I can't do anymore you'll have to call him in. She didn't know I had a partner tbh as hadn't touched my notes all night, what if I didn't? I was so upset as I felt like a bad mum, he had been amazing and it felt like she was criticizing him, and I was worried about him making the drive back really tired. I was the only one on the ward that night, and although I know they are busy there's a way to say things. She also made a medical blunder which was a pain in the ass (not literally thankfully) but might be too outing to say!

He didn't mind at all by the way coming back in, and in hindsight I have no idea how I was thinking I'd cope all night, but the midwife on evening shift could have said, or maybe a bit more tact.

A mother on a postnatal ward should absolutely have enough support from staff to take basic care of a baby’s needs without a partner present. It’s absolutely appalling. Initially partners were allowed to stay for moral support and bonding more than anything, but their presence is now taken for granted to such an extent that there is insufficient staffing.

It’s absolutely disgraceful that women who’ve been awake sometimes for days, may have had surgery, may have severe physical or mental trauma should be expected to cope alone with a newborn baby (possibly for the first time). There’s no excuse for this whatsoever.

A lot of the feedback from NICU mums is that they want me to able to stay with their babies overnight in the same bay, which I can absolutely understand, but my concern is that this will go the same way and parents will be expected to be there 24/7 for basic care. Babies can be in nicu for months and this is simply not feasible. I hated leaving my babies behind every night, but there’s no way I could have recovered from my c section while sleeping in the NICU environment and caring for two very sick newborns 24/7.

I understand why nursery areas were done away with, in terms of bonding etc, but I do think new mums in hospital need to have this option, especially if they’re in more than a night or two.

Frankly, it’s an absolute disgrace that post partum women have to share space with strange random men because maternity wards are understaffed. Especially if they’re refusing to allow new mums to have female help, allowing their mothers or sisters to be with them would be so much more appropriate. Why aren’t women up in arms about it? It’s al very well wanting your partner there but it’s showing other women no consideration at all.

I agree, rightly or wrongly I don't think I'd be so uncomfortable if it was women staying on the ward with new mothers, especially as many of them will have gone through birth themselves.

The thing that bugged me was that friends who’d had relaxed, easy births in the midwife led unit were in lovely plush private rooms with their partners with beds until they went home. But if you’d been high risk or had a difficult birth or a c section you were dumped on the hideous antenatal wards from hell with your partner on a chair, inches away from the next patient and all their endless sodding visitors at probably the most vulnerable time most women will go through. It really felt like there was a 2 tier system in action and if you weren’t all hypnobirthing and water and whale music you were being punished for it.

If I’d had to have someone I’d have chosen my mum over my utterly useless husband all day long.

The thing that bugged me was that friends who’d had relaxed, easy births in the midwife led unit were in lovely plush private rooms with their partners with beds until they went home

I had my baby in a midwife led centre. It was an easy birth but I was exhausted and was told to leave two hours after having her....at midnight! I remember the midwife coming back into the room and being made to feel like I'd over stayed my welcome.

Snuggybuggy - personal care by family is the way the NHS is going. Started with Childrens wards, then maternity, next it will be geriatric.

The bit that gets me is who looks after older siblings if both parents are in the maternity wards?

EdtheBear, everyone has a grandparent available obviously

I've just spent the day on the children's ward with 6 year old ds. Ward was fairly quiet so spare food was given to parents and siblings, delivered to the patient's bedside. We were all offered drinks regularly too. Meanwhile on maternity patients who are 12 hours after major surgery are expected to make their own breakfast, walk from their beds to the kitchen and then back, carrying a heavy tray, carry full water jugs, sterilise bottle feeding equipment, either walk to nicu and back several times a day or take care of a newborn and the list goes on.

You aren't being unreasonable BUT the nhs is strapped for cash and staff. You could pay for a private room instead?

@Pandamodium I'm so sorry

A lot of these stories aren’t reflective of every maternity unit.
We are very against partners staying over night and definitely do not allow in bays but unfortunately it’s the women who ask for it saying they don’t want to be alone, dad’s need to bond too etc. Our Trust is now considering partners staying but it’s from patient feedback, not lack of staff.