To expect a teacher to be qualified?

[Sunnysummer1]

My ds is about to start year 3 in September & I have just found out his teacher is not a qualified teacher. She has been an teaching assistant for a few years & is starting a teaching degree which she will do one afternoon a week. She has a teaching assistant qualification nvq, but nothing else. I have heard that she is a good teaching assistant and my ds likes her. She is supported by the deputy and will have a teaching assistant in the classroom in the morning. I’m trying not to worry but it just doesn’t sit comfortably with me as I thought teachers had to have a degree. She is fairly young; under 30 & doesn’t have children, if that makes any difference. Would it bother you?

Interesting that no parents here are reflecting on what their own children/teens say about unqualified teachers. They bloody know the difference, that’s for sure! I recently shared a few weeks of cover with a cover supervisor (unqualified teacher paid a pittance). Lovely lady, really lovely, but you should have seen the kids’ faces each time they walked in and realised it was my day rather than hers. The faces were: ‘Thank God: it’s the one who actually knows the subject and actually knows how on earth to break it down for me in clear steps’.

Might have to move to Scotland or Ireland where teaching is still a profession.

I think it's the other way around Zoo, it's the y5/ y6 teachers who always panic in reception or year 1. You have a very short time window to get your message across in exactly the right way or it's a complete waste of time. I've seen enough newbie teachers' panicked faces to know that although the content is simpler, then he delivery is a lot harder and more skilled the further down you go. That's why lots of people struggle with their own children when they are very young!

No I wouldn't be happy at all. Not because I think that the person in question would be incapable or incompetent- far from it I'm sure but because it dilutes the profession.

Loads of twaddle on this this thread.

1.is the school in England?

1. assuming that it is in England is is an academy? (assuming not a special school)

no - it needs to have qts
yes- it can employ anyone it wants who can operate at the level of its

The school is in England.

I think a relevant teaching degree is important to ensure the teachers proficiency. I'm all for training on the job under the direct supervision of a suitable mentor (qualified and experienced) but I'm Scottish and as pp have said this is unheard of in Scotland. Our teachers generally have a PGCE or are working towards it and are still supervised.

blushpink in Glasgow City Council.thet are always called PSAs- only referring to mu experience. And whilst many ( in your experience) may have been highly qualified very few that I have come across ( secondary) have been. Some have openly admitted that some classes are beyond them. I recently asked 2 PSAs to help with some testing for more able S1 learners ( y7/8) and they both said there were words that they didn't know how to pronounce.

I would NOT personally be happy with a probationer- my eldest son had a probationer for p5 and I feel he stagnated, whereas he excelled with an excellent, experienced teacher in p6. Yes, it's all about individuals but I wouldn't want to take the chance. My own opinion, which I'm entitled to.

Sorry, lots of typos- tired.

I am seriously shocked by this.

No I would not be happy ! At all!

A TA is NOT in the same league as a teacher.

I'm betting this happens a lot more than people think.
I've got a friend who is a TA (and she's really good, better than some of the actual teachers)
However she's not a trained teacher but her school is so understaffed that she's basically having to act as a teacher.

Supergirlthesecond, I think you misunderstood what I meant. I didn't mean they know more about teaching - I suppose I'm trying to avoid saying they may actually be more intelligent, that they may have more general knowledge, know more about/be better at specific subjects e.g. history, literature, sciences - they just happen not to be teachers.

As I previously said, I agree TAs that do not have a PGCE should not be employed as teachers, however I'm just countering the view that all TAs are thickos who are only good for washing paintpots!

Most top public schools use unqualified teachers.

@AllPizzasGreatAndSmall I don’t think I misunderstood it. My point stands. Look at the comments after your reply - one person says she has a friend who is a TA who is better than the teacher. Has this TA taught the classes day in, day ou? Done the prep? How much easier is it to be a good TA when the weight of the class is being carried by the teacher? Perhaps it is the teachers skill in organising he dynamics of the class that make the TA look so good? You just don’t know yet we are getting this drip feed of TAs = underapreciated/would be better at the job if the teachers didn’t stand in their way. You also said the TAs may know more about the specific subjects. Really? Really?

@CherryPavlova this is just rubbish. Absolute nonsense

Under appreciated before someone says their TA can spell better than me.

There is a big difference between being an unqualified teacher with a degree & doing a PGCE or equivalent to a TA doing a part time teaching degree & being a teacher in charge of a class.

You also said the TAs may know more about the specific subjects. Really? Really?

Yes, the TA in our school who has a doctorate in geography probably knows more about that subject than the teachers in the school, don't you think? She certainly knows far more than I do about geography. We are talking primary remember, so not subject specialists..

You seem determined to relate what I am saying to ability to teach, whereas I have repeatedly said the point I am making is that it is fine to say that TAs shouldn't be teaching without a qualification, but a few posters seem to think all TAs lack the intelligence to be teachers, which is not true.

CherryPavlova
Yes, independent schools often have unqualified teachers, but I expect they all have degrees.

I've got a friend who is a TA (and she's really good, better than some of the actual teachers

And you are so sure of that how exactly??!! Have you seen every teacher in this “friends” school teach? Are YOU a teacher? Do you know what you are looking for when you are assessing a teacher? 🙄

At the school I teach at, one of the high level teaching assistants has been given the year 3 class next year because there is such a shortage of teachers in our borough. She has no degree but our London borough grants QTS to people who have been working with children over five years, after a short course, which she will do whilst on the job. Personally, I would be annoyed at having an unqualified teacher teach my child. Theory is important. You don't just stand at the front and read information off a PowerPoint!

Also shocked by how many people seem to think anyone can teach younger children, 'because the content is easier.' Yes, you don't need a PHD in English/Maths, but you need to understand how children learn in order to teach them (especially SEN/EAL who will need alternative methods). We can all read but most people would have no idea where to start when teaching a child to read! Children need a solid understanding of Maths/English/Reading from an early age. Anything missing will cause problems later on. Children deserve the best and should be taught by a qualified teacher.

@AllPizzagreatandsmall - apart from the fact that having a doctorate in a subject does not mean the person necessarily knows every part of the curriculum (for example: there are English grads who have never covered grammar (unbelievably) yet would have to teach it, your example is rare and not really definitive of the whole.

The issue of TAs intelligence, I agree with - the point I am trying to make is that in asserting TAs intelligence you have done so at the expense of the teachers' and it is this setting up one against the other that is causing real problems in schools. It is certainly why I left. You can be a smart TA and also work with a smart teacher. Neither are immune to making mistakes.

We don't need to defend TAs by putting new teachers down.

Anyway, I am going now as this is so depressing. I really wonder how many people would accept this in their job. We are creating a timebomb for your children when they enter the workplace and compete with kids who did have the correct resources and the only people who are holding the frame open for state kids are the very people being replaced at cost. If people really believe that you can transition, that simply, from a TA to a teacher, I just don't know what to say. All that is happening is that the classes are being treated like an extension of the TAs role - a supprt role has become the whole class approach, effectively. It is very dangerous.

Did I read that correctly? Anyone working with children for more than five years in a certain London borough can get QTS after a short course? No degree necessary? 😱

In theory if would bother me however there is a TA at a school I visit on a professional basis (who has no interest in going into teaching) who is one of the best maths teachers I've ever seen. She has a way of explaining things with far more clarity than I ever had and can make a lesson flow from picking up an initial concept to solving a greater depth problem and make it seem so easy.

I've only seen her teach maths so I have no idea what she's like with other lessons but she reckons it's just from years and years of sitting in other people's lessons that she's already seen what will work and what won't work. Either way, I'd be over the moon if she was teaching my kids.