Women who forget not everyone has access to money from men

[windygallows]

With 34.5% of the population aged over 16 in England ‘single and not cohabiting’ (2015 stats), it’s clear that a significant number of women in the UK, many parents, are single and having to fend for themselves/live on one income.

Yet I'm amazed at the number of women who forget that not every woman has access to a second income from a partner. In fact the privilege of having access to another’s (usually a man’s) income is often naturalized and many women are, or become, totally oblivious to this privilege.

For example just this last week I experienced:

• A woman at work going on and on about the importance of her life/work balance and suggesting I drop my hours to have similar. She works just 2 days/week and seems to forget that such a setup is an absolute privilege, thanks to a husband who works FT.

• Another woman I know who is on quite a low salary bragging about her 3 luxury holidays per year, again thanks to the income from an IT Director husband. She thought she'd give me travel tips in case I wanted to go to the same 5star holiday.

There are a million reasons why women might have to rely on men’s income but I don’t think I ABU in asking women to recognize that their lifestyle and having access to men’s money isn’t the NORM for up to 1/3 of women, who are having to get by on their own accord and lack the same privilege or financial flexibility.

NotBeingRobbed, we can't know what is going on in private in anyone's life - that includes single people, couples who share financial and domestic burdens 50:50, people who pool finances, people who keep finances entirely separate, SAHMs, WOHDs or absolutely anybody else you care to mention. Not knowing what someone's private life is really like is not reserved to one specific type of relationship! I know that people who are contemptuous of other people's arrangements just because they wouldn't choose them for themselves have a massive chip on their shoulder about something, though, given that they can't read minds or understand other people's thoughts and feelings any better than anyone else can.

Interestingly, I remember reading a study in which less women than men wanted equality - 74%. I was baffled at the time as I couldn't envisage why more than one in four women didn't want to be equal.

However, I expect that maybe it was reflecting that many women want to celebrate their differences and not have to pursue a boring office job just because men do.

People in 2 income households have more disposable income than people in single income households. Shocker.

Also “equality” doesn’t need to mean you have to do the same things or want the same things. You can be equal but different. It always seems really odd to me when people on MN seem to equate equality in relationships with who does the laundry, or who works the most hours, etc etc.

Also “equality” doesn’t need to mean you have to do the same things or want the same things. You can be equal but different.

Agree that's it is a somewhat fluid term - equality of opportunity is I think the phrase for what I'd like to see. However, others seem to actually want quotas etc and I don't think this should be forced just achieve a statistic.

A woman gives up some of her career for the team of her and her husband post children then butchers on the internet say she has no self respect. One of the many ways people express their hatred of women.

A woman gives up some of her career for the team of her and her husband post children then butchers on the internet say she has no self respect. One of the many ways people express their hatred of women.

To be fair, it's usually women I see belittling SAHMs, particularly particular types of feminist. I generally don't agree with them but am aware that as a bloke that could be viewed as 'protecting my privilege' - not my intention, I just think couples should do what works for them and fuck what strangers think.

No bourbon I had one year-long relationship when I was 22 with an older man who earned more than me, I was quite happy to keep everything separate, it was him pushing for joint finances and until that time the concept had never occurred to me. He offered to pay for things I couldn’t afford, almost insisted at times, but I declined because I didn’t want to be kept or feel indebted. I found his approach stifling and like it chipped away at my identity as an individual. Since then I’ve largely been single and focusing on myself and my own improvement (not just financially but career-wise, socially, enjoyment/hobbies, mentally etc etc).

In my opinion Bees and Bjorn it can never be a totally free choice for women to do this - if it really was a genuinely individual decision made only with the family unit of the particular people in mind, there’d be equal numbers of men and women doing it. But it isn’t, and society isn’t set up for it. Childcare is prohibitively expensive, shared parental leave has low take-up rates, the kind of jobs these high-flying men do seem to come with the expectation that they have to be present at all times and there’s no flexibility. Not to mention the gender pay gap - women are penalised for doing this very thing. So rather than hating women, it’s the opposite. It’s a feminist issue, and until there is serious structural change to encourage equal, flexible parenting, women are going to be the ones who suffer from this

dodgeballchamp - no there would not necessarily be equal numbers of men and women doing it. I am quite certain that if everyone had genuinely free choice, society would be very different, but you do not know that men and women would be equally represented in all areas of life if they were totally free to make choices without being inhibited by societal expectations and structures. What you want is to force new norms on society, not to give people more choice.

I have access to my dhs money and it gives me (us) a very nice lifestyle. However I also work and earn relatively well (not remotely on the same level as him) but the money is our money. He can have my money if he wants.
I stayed at home for a lot of years to look after the 3 dc and used his money to live on. But you know, that's what sometimes happens when you are a family and have kids.

However I am more than well aware that some women are single parents and don't have a partner to help financially.
I also well aware that some women in a marriage or partnership do not have access to the partners money and struggles.

I do not throw my circumstances in anyone's face , I keep my financial situation private but I'm not going to apologise for it.

We have been very poor we know what it's like to struggle.
But however little money we had there were people who had less. And however much money we have now there are people who have more.

I just live my life and don't give too much thought on what other people are doing.

So dodge you are basing your experience of relationships on a 12month boyfriend and advising people on how to live their lives after children, after, not actually having children yourself.

You sound quite bitter about life, you can not make such sweeping statements as its not women's choice to stay at home, when ultimately all the women I know, it is exactly that!!!

And calling it out as feminism is just laughable, and always is when its wheeled out on here. Whatever "wave" of feminism you are claiming it is, is not at all the true vision of feminism

Totally agree @Tigger001 .

It is quite remarkable that a single person - with no dependents - feels qualified to lecture women on how they should structure their lives, family set-ups and finances, when they have no concept of it.

In fact, it seems their experience is limited to a short-term, youthful, unequal relationship!

Incredible.

Well.

I am married but we have separate accounts. All bills are split 50/50. DH earns a little more than me. His car is nicer than mine, and l've got more shoes than him. Sometimes if he gets a bonus he gives me some, and vice versa. Being married doesn't mean you get to spend your husband's money. It's not the 1950s anymore.

“Being married doesn't mean you get to spend your husband's money. It's not the 1950s anymore”

That’s possibly the most peculiar comment I’ve read in MN and that’s saying something. I don’t know where to begin with that one

LadyTired - the fact it's not the 1950s has fuck all to do with whether or not you view it to be family money or his and hers money - it's not as if it was viewed as anything other than his money in 1950, after all.

Being married doesn't mean you get to spend your husband's money. It's not the 1950s anymore.

Nice one.

The way it works in our house, where we both bring in a decent salary, and both of them are needed for the running of the house, spending, high days and holidays, is that the money is pooled and it becomes all four of our money.

Not 'his money' and 'my money', but our money. I'm not suggesting that every household should run that way, but it works just fine for us in 2019.

This thread is hilarious.

Right so we’re not allowed opinions on things unless we’ve experienced them now? I’m not sure where you’re getting the impression that I’m bitter about life 😂 I really enjoy my life, but I recognise that many things I feel like I’m deciding to do freely are not free choices whatsoever. Shaving my legs. Wearing makeup. Trivial examples compared to how one manages finances but influenced by societal expectations nonetheless. You can be entirely happy with your life choices while still recognising they’re not made without the influence of structural and societal factors and they’re not independent of patriarchal frameworks. Or you can pretend you’re completely free from all those constraints and refuse to apply any critical thinking. Doesn’t mean you’re right.

dodgeballchamp - you're allowed an opinion, it's just the lecturing that sticks in the craw. You seem to think you have it all figured out, and much wisdom to impart. In fact, you have no idea. You're not a wife/partner. You're not a mother. A little self-awareness wouldn't go amiss.

You speak in a very binary way - SAHM and breadwinner - when most family set-ups simply don't function that way. You talk of someone losing 'autonomy and independence'. That's not what I see when I look at the families around me, because the women all work and earn, as well.

You tried to play devil's advocate, asking what would happen if the breadwinner decided they didn't fancy it any more.

Well, in most binary set-ups, such a proposition would be extremely unlikely to just come out of the blue. Functioning, healthy, mutually-supportive couples discuss and agree their roles and responsibilities, and the best way forward for their family. If things need to change, they keep talking, readjust, keep moving forward. You have no experience of this.

I'm a feminist. That's partly why I work and earn. I'm the first to recognise and acknowledge my choices aren't made in a vacuum. That's really not the issue I have with your posts!

...and in any case - I'm sure the SAHMs of MN - the ones who do live in the binary, unequal set-up you're so concerned about - do all really appreciate your advice, insights and wisdom as to how they should be managing their household, responsibilities and finances.

It is quite remarkable that a single person - with no dependents - feels qualified to lecture women on how they should structure their lives, family set-ups and finances, when they have no concept of it

Exactly.

Uninformed opinions never make sense and normally come from an unadmitted grudgeful place.

DP earns more than me yes I get to spend some of his money at times and so what? It's our choice. I'd rather not be the one on the outside carping about others' relationship business and focusing on money that isn't theirs.

In a partnership unless you're weird/tight there's no 'it's my money only' attitude. We share. Women don't have to prove they're worthy of their life partner spending some money on them. & after all it could also be the other way around couldn't it?

This post sounds as if partners should live as flatmates or some such. What next, a spreadsheet with a woman having to note down and justify every penny spent?

dodgeballchamp - you need to read your posts back to yourself. They do come across a bit as though you are congratulating yourself for refusing to take responsibility for anything in life but yourself. It's hardly surprising you do not want children - they are a responsibility. I do not want to live in a society where nobody cares about anyone other than themselves and their own entertainment, tbh. I don't think such a society would function very well.

Dodge - you’re at liberty to live the way you wish, of course, but I think it’s odd to claim that your lifestyle is “feminist.” What’s feminist about cutting yourself off and obsessing about money?
What are women supposed to do - only date men who earn exactly the same as them? Live as flatmates with totally separate finances and not have children? Good luck with that.
The fact is, women are the childbearing sex. We’re not robots. Feminism, to me, is about embracing that “difference”, not trying to pretend we’re all the same, or that “equality” or a person’s worth is measurable by their salary. As a pp said earlier, it’s like knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing. Men and women have evolved with certain differences for a reason. That’s not to say women shouldn’t work - not at all- but you can’t just expect us all to squash into the same box either.

dodgeballchamp I'm sorry if it came across that you are not entitled to an opinion, that is not what I meant, everybody is entitled to an opinion.

I just feel your opinion holds less weight, as you have not actually been there, so it's all well and good saying how things should be done, but other than a very very brief boyfriend, you have not walked in them shoes, so simply could not say what you would do, if you were married or with children.

But as I've said, your choose on how to live your life is yours and your alone, I do however think you are massively missing out on what is ,a wonderful thing, and by that, I don't necessarily mean children, but being able to share the highs and lows of your life with someone supportive and loving is a wonderful thing.

I don’t think you have to experience something to have an opinion. I know FGM is wrong without suffering it myself!

My biggest shock when it came to divorcing was discovering that I really had no money of my own. I mean there were all those years when I was paid a salary and it actually went to a joint account. I also saved into my own account to make sure there was plenty for rainy days and for uni in future. But my name on my payslip was an illusion because actually HIS name might as well have been on it! This is what has now struck me about all that women called Mrs (Insert Male Name). It doesn’t matter who they actually are, they are just his plus one for the moment - thing Offred of Ofjoseph!

All the time you are married you can have your own money in your own account. He can also keep his own money in his accounts and share no information on his financial affairs - whether running up vast debts or making millions. But the moment you try to divorce none of that belongs to the named account holder, it’s suddenly joint!

It’s standard advice to tell women to have a “running away fund” but maybe it should be made clear the fund should be twice as much as she thinks she needs as half will belong to him!

As a 21st century woman I find that situation - basically having a leech attached - completely unacceptable.

I'm not sure it's really possible to keep finances completely separate or to have everything totally "equal" when you're married. Me and my DH have separate bank accounts (mainly because we don't really see the need for a joint one) and our salaries get paid into our respective accounts. However in all practical senses our finances are merged because that's the reality of day to day living. I earn more than my husband but I don't see our marriage as him "having access" to my money. We both have access to the family finances and decide together how they're spent.

My mum was a SAHM for years and then started working PT, mainly to care for the kids while my Dad worked. I'm not 100% sure that would be for me, but I don't think it was a stupid decision. I've always seen them as a true partnership, both playing different roles in making sure the family was working well. I think that any marriage is a role of the dice to some extent but that all you can do is try to make the right decisions for you and your family and protect yourself as much as possible.

It's an individual choice though and I wouldn't judge anyone else's decision. (going back to the OPs original post however,if someone has money they shouldn't go around advising others that they should go to X posh hotel or go PT at work, that's just good manners and not being ignorant that many people aren't as lucky, regardless of whether that money is earned by either partner!)