I can't stop crying at the picture of the 2 year old El Salvadoran girl and her Father. [Edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

[woodtv]

I won't link to it as people can find it if they wish to. I wish I hadn't.

The 23 month old and her Father were trying to cross the Rio Grande in to the United States and drowned. Her arms were around his neck.

I saw it a few hours ago and just can't get it out of my head and help bursting in to tears.

I'm so ashamed of this country's government. The situation down there (and elsewhere of course) is heartbreaking. I'd like to go and volunteer as friends have but can't leave ds.

My friends who've been down there say it's actually played down on the news. Trump and his government should be tried for war crimes.

And @Outsomnia I'm sorry but you're starting to sound like my racist, Daily Mail reading Grandma.

@Outsomnia shit sorry, I read that wrong. Apologies.

Like I said, there is so much going on within our own country, we have no right to say anything, but empathise with those who have died abroad.

I know it's not a race to the bottom but please don't equate British kids with kids (and the terror and horrors they're living) from Syrian/Sudan etc.

The UKs position on asylum (and Canada’s) are probably going to have to be the way forward with this.

Merkel’s 2015 invitation to asylum seekers did not work. It simply meant that any young, fit, male migrants with access to cash could turned up demand asylum. The UN said that 70% were not genuine asylum seekers. It encouraged people to make incredibly dangerous journeys and enriched criminal gangs of people traffickers. And the genuine asylum seekers become bogged down in years and years of red tape. The state faced huge financial demands and there was great social upheaval. It only help the richest, the fittest and the most ruthless.

Meanwhile, the UK refused to get involved. We said we weren’t interested in the migrants forcing themselves in, instead they were going to go directly to the camps in Syria and aid agencies would identify 25,000 in the greatest danger and need would be identified and brought here direct from camps. This means Yazidi sex slaves, sick children, torture victims orphans. We went right in there and what we did worked. We also invested intensively on aid in camps. For the cost of keeping one person in Germany, many, many, more could be helped medically and with food and shelter in the ME.

Even Merkel now admits her approach was wrong and ours worked better and had better outcomes.

The system of ‘just turn up and ask’ is hugely, widely abused on a global scale and it has to be reformed.

But really, please, I know I mentioned the US government in my op. But can hardship and suffering please not become tools for political debates? Can't we just be sad for humanities failings with trying to politicly point score?

Bloody hell, OP. I know you mean well, are emotional, and that your simplistic analysis is probably genuine, but honestly, that's very hypocritical of you.

I couldn’t stop being amazed at the ghoul that took the photo in the first place. Just like that other ghoul that took the photo of the little boy on the beach.

Yes as I said, it's hypocritical. But carry on. The right seem to be the late mn dwellers tonight.

@Procrastination4 i did think that. Fucking hell, you see that and the first thing you think is to photograph it?

But I have friends that have been working down there and they just want the scale of the atrocities to be more publicised. And not just for political leverage as some twisted people on this thread just seem keen on.

The left, the right, we're all making mistakes. I'm sure somebody will post shortly patronising me and telling me I don't understand and I'm virtue signalling but it's better than being a cold hearted asshole.

Yes as I said, it's hypocritical. But carry on. The right seem to be the late mn dwellers tonight.

You've concluded i'm rightwing?

What definition of the right are you using? Anyone who disagrees with you?

Have a yourself.

Maybe you're left. I don't know and don't particularly care. You're patronising and high handed is all I know. If you are left voting, attitudes like yours are why so many people voted for Trump.

I don't actually think you understand the issues. Maybe that's patronising, but it's the kindest explanation I can think of.

You've started a mawkish thread about a prurient, disrespectful photograph of a dead girl who deserves her dignity. You've hijacked it as a political point and then you have the nerve to justify the prurience with But I have friends that have been working down there and they just want the scale of the atrocities to be more publicised, as if your friends have the right to make that call.

I'm astonished you seem to think you're on the moral high ground.

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook you're suggesting I'm racist? That's a nasty leap to make.

Yes it would be, which is why I didn't say you were racist. I'm very careful about calling people racist. People do it over trivia. You've said nothing that reads as racist to me, have I missed something?

I said the truth. Which is that before the story of the little boy on the beach, boat loads of African migrants had been drowning whilst attempting to get to Italy and elsewhere but from a news story point of view they were not as aesthetically pleasing or the coverage would have been as great but it wasn't. Their deaths would not have resonated as much as a white looking child washed up on the beach.

People get more fired up when the individuals concerned look more like them. It's just the way things are. Hence the story had wider impact.

For me, I just found MC people suddenly galvalnised and offering their empty houses and spare rooms to total strangers over people who could have done with that support here a bit distasteful.

Sometimes journalists have a responsibility to share images that may otherwise be considered 'ghoulish'.

In part, sometimes people need an illustration of atrocities before they seem 'real' but, more particularly in the US at the moment, written reports of children dying while attempting to cross the border would be met with cries of 'fake news' - hell, we're even getting the odd 'fake photo' in here.

This was tragic, but please explain how this is the administration ‘s doing? There are laws for asylum seekers which are being used by an unprecedented number of people at the moment.

All this person had to do is rock up to the border and claim asylum. They would have been taken in pending their court hearing. Instead they chose a dangerous and illegal point of entry.

Maybe one should look at the government of the country being fled, or the countries being bypassed on the way to the US border before assigning blame.

This was tragic, but please explain how this is the administration ‘s doing? There are laws for asylum seekers which are being used by an unprecedented number of people at the moment.

And yet successful applications looks set to be at their lowest since 1977.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_in_the_United_States#/media/File%3ARefugee_Admissions_1975-Present.png

The Trump administration has also introduced policies of family separation; limiting the number of people processed at ports of entry, prolonged detention and narrowing grounds of eligibility for asylum.

It has also started refusing to admit people to the country (so they instead wait in Mexico) for months or years until their proceedings conclude. Due to a shortage of shelter space, many of those returned to Mexico bave limited or no access to shelter, food, water or other necessities. Their lack of a fixed address also deprives them of due process as they have no stable means of contact with their would-be attorneys.

The hardline approach and hugely decreased admissions are causing more would-be asylum seeking families to attempt dangerous and illegal border crossings.

You are, however, absolutely correct that the blame does not by any stretch rest solely with the US.

@CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook

People get more fired up when the individuals concerned look more like them. It's just the way things are. Hence the story had wider impact.

Speak for yourself. I don't tend to prioritise my grief according to colour.

Apparently this story didn’t make it to you @NameChange9854.

www.cnn.com/videos/world/2019/07/03/el-salvador-president-takes-blame-migrant-deaths-walker-pkg-vpx.cnn

“People don’t flee their homes because they want to,” President Nayib Bukele said Sunday at a news conference in San Salvador, the capital of El Salvador. “They flee their homes because they feel they have to.”

“They fled El Salvador, they fled our country,” he declared. “It is our fault.”

www.nytimes.com/2019/07/01/world/americas/nayib-bukele-migrant-deaths.html

@saltinesandcoffeecups

Yes it did, which is why I said "You are, however, absolutely correct that the blame does not by any stretch rest solely with the US."

(Well, that story isn't the sole reason I said you can't pin all the blame on the US, but I'm aware of it).

It has also started refusing to admit people to the country (so they instead wait in Mexico) for months or years until their proceedings conclude. Due to a shortage of shelter space, many of those returned to Mexico bave limited or no access to shelter, food, water or other necessities. Their lack of a fixed address also deprives them of due process as they have no stable means of contact with their would-be attorneys.

So then let’s all look at Mexico. They’ve taken a really dim view on those passing through to the US. Why aren’t they housing, feeding, and offering aid to these people? Why haven’t they been called out?

Quite frankly Trump called this a crises when others in the American government said there wasn’t one. Why is that? Why did the US house not vote for more money until just lately? Who controlled that vote?

Look this is a shitshow from any angle, but some people (and I’m not including you) are taking the easy scapegoat to this problem.

His hard-line approach on asylum seekers has deterred people (particularly those with children) from trying to enter the country legally, so instead they take more perilous routes to enter illegally

That family would never have been given asylum, they were economic migrants. An interview with the mother confirmed that, their neighborhood was relatively safe, but they lived with parents and wanted money for a house.

Obviously wasn’t worth the risk, but to be successful, their crossing was always going to be illegal.

FWIW I think we need a zero tolerance approach to economic migrants. If people think they are going to be successful, they will continue to put themselves and their children at risk.

FWIW I think we need a zero tolerance approach to economic migrants. If people think they are going to be successful, they will continue to put themselves and their children at risk.

I'm really not well versed enough to properly comment on this but that sounds sensible. But then I think, God, is that just someone who has enough money to feed my family and possibly have enough when I get old? Although what you're saying makes sense, how can we comment when we have no practical idea of their circumstances and their reality?

Whatever happened, however it happened, it's a tragedy. And if people want to belittle and patronise me and others who felt sad seeing a dreadful photo then go ahead.

I can empathise with your tears, op. El Salvador is a dangerous place, especially for girls who are often taken by gangs and trafficked into the sex trade (especially in America). You can't blame the parents for wanting a safer life for their daughter.

It's so tragic.