I can't stop crying at the picture of the 2 year old El Salvadoran girl and her Father. [Edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

[woodtv]

I won't link to it as people can find it if they wish to. I wish I hadn't.

The 23 month old and her Father were trying to cross the Rio Grande in to the United States and drowned. Her arms were around his neck.

I saw it a few hours ago and just can't get it out of my head and help bursting in to tears.

I'm so ashamed of this country's government. The situation down there (and elsewhere of course) is heartbreaking. I'd like to go and volunteer as friends have but can't leave ds.

My friends who've been down there say it's actually played down on the news. Trump and his government should be tried for war crimes.

This kind of shit is very easy to say when you’re living in a safe and wealthy country

100% this.

People in stable situations don’t risk their kids lives in this way for a few quid.

Lot's of people in grim situations nevertheless prioritise their DC's safety and security rather than gambling on improved prospects by doing something life-endangering.

You're patronising them by applying lower expectations.

It reminds me of the little boy on the beach in Turkey I think.

There is a backstory to that which is not very nice.

I am totally sure that this Dad and daughter are not the first to die like this given the numbers we hear about. What's behind it? With due respect to their deaths. And her arm was around her Dad in the pictures.

If you are drowning do you actually do that? Maybe to latch on to the nearest thing to keep you afloat. But I have questions in my mind about staging the pics.

Sorry I just don't take everything at face value anymore now. I will not be brainwashed.

May they rest in peace.

Unfortunately having worked in this area of law, parents are sometimes willing to risk their children's lives for the hope of getting to the UK. I've seen trafficking cases, cases where children have been sexually exploited in return for their journey - because their parents believe they will be financially (and there are cases where that is all it is - money) better off here.

I've seen parents put their children at risk in refrigerated lorries, in car chassis, over crowded and unsafe boats - and they do, in some (though not all) cases list financial opportunity as the motivation, or kne of the motivations.

Because of my current job I am limited with what I can say, but parents can put their children at tremendous risk in the belief they will be coming to a better life - and for some, that better life is a financial thing, rather than war, political unrest, persecution etc

I'll add my voice to this, as the grandchild of immigrant refugees. I feel for these people.

My hope us that there us enough law and enough democracy and enough people to vote for a big change and that that monster both in the senate and oval office have their end recorded for posterity. Better yet, they are recognised as criminals and spend their remaining days in a prison just such as these.

It's heartbreaking. I'm sat here with my DS who's 20 months old sleeping on my chest and his big brother fast asleep in his bedroom and I just can't imagine what hell these people must go through to feel like that's the best option.

We are so fucking lucky to not have to experience such sheer desperation.

It would help if people put some of these tragedies into context and not use them as political sway and pretend it would all go away if the other side were in charge.

American attitudes to illegal immigration is why Trump came to power, some refuse to accept this and ignore Obama's reign on power because. Trump is the ultimate fuckwit, but one thing he has highlighted is that some people only seem to care when they can score political points.

As for this:
I'd like to go and volunteer as friends have but can't leave ds.

It's ultimate empty gesturing.

Immigration isn't a simple black and white issue, and it shows the level of maturity of those who think it is.

@Outsomnia, I’m struggling to think of what might constitute a ‘nice’ backstory to the deaths of migrants.

I also cried. How anyone can justify it is astounding. How anyone believes their place in the world is worth more than another just because of where they were birn is disgusting. I despair. People are unbelievably selfish. Those with privilege should help the vulnerable, not shut them out or blame them. It's the saddest photo because it captures the selfishness of many.

It's heartbreaking, as are he conditions in the detention centres and the disgusting Facebook group for the border patrol agents.

Obviously illegal immigrants often and probably necessarily end up in detention centres but the child separation policy under the Trump administration is grotesque and, as per the UN's statement, may amount to torture.

And so many of the kids will probably never be reunited with their families.

The US has lost any claim to being some sort of force for moral good in the world.

sink I read that in a newspaper article at the time, sorry can’t remember which one ( not DM as I don’t read it)
Butter I meant that perhaps if financial and other assistance was given to help these countries make people’s lives better there they might not feel they have to make the dangerous journey

It’s just awful. We are so privileged in this country, I have never envisaged being in that position with my precious child. People who whinge about immigrants that are so desperate they endanger their children’s lives in this way should give this some thought.

@NorwegianButter

I said it was NOT very nice regarding the little Turkish boy . Thank you.

I meant that perhaps if financial and other assistance was given to help these countries make people’s lives better there they might not feel they have to make the dangerous journey

Quite.

Mexico, particularly, needs huge foreign aid and development advice to offset its border status and the pressures that brings. But foreign aid is always inadequate and electorally unpopular.

There's huge western arrogance in the widespread acceptance of the idea that half the developing world must move to the developed world to find acceptable living conditions. But believing that conveniently allows us to leave Africa, S America etc (whole continents) struggling.

How anyone can justify it is astounding.

Name one publication, twitter feed or whatever trying to justify it.

The only people trying to make political hay out of this are one who want to push some black and white agenda.

I too thought the photo looked staged.

There is more to this story and somebody or some people know more than they are letting on.

Very tragic though

There is a backstory to that which is not very nice
Given the rest of your post, I'm curious as to the backstory you're referring to.

If you are drowning do you actually do that? Maybe to latch on to the nearest thing to keep you afloat. But I have questions in my mind about staging the pics.

I've read a number of posts on Mumsnet around pool safety where people have emphasised how quickly and quietly small children drown.

I loathe Trump but I don't understand how his policies have resulted in this tragedy.

What's the connection?

@NameChange9854

The daddy was the captain of a ship transporting illegal migrants. And he lost his lovely son in the process. I don't know what happened after he lost his son, I think he was heading for Canada.

You're patronising them by applying lower expectations.

No, those who assume they would risk their child’s life for the pittance we give to asylum seekers are dehumanising them by applying low expectations. I’m assuming they love their children as much as I do, but that they’re not as fortunate as I am to have been born somewhere I never have to face this decision.

Heartbreaking

I loathe Trump but I don't understand how his policies have resulted in this tragedy.
His hard-line approach on asylum seekers has deterred people (particularly those with children) from trying to enter the country legally, so instead they take more perilous routes to enter illegally.

@Justanotherlurker

Immigration isn't a simple black and white issue, and it shows the level of maturity of those who think it is.

Did I say it was? Do you mean to be so rude and unpleasant?

No, those who assume they would risk their child’s life for the pittance we give to asylum seekers are dehumanising them by applying low expectations.

You're the only one who has mentioned payments to asylum seekers as a possible motivation for risking death. Literally nobody else on the thread has raised it as a possibility. Probably because it's so unlikely.

This is about the US, not the UK, anyway.