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AIBU?

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Original poster

Quite possibly the most fucked up thing I have read for a long time

87 replies

RogueV · 28/06/2019 09:31

Alabama woman charged after losing unborn baby in shooting

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48789836

Still can’t get my head round it

OP posts:
Isatis · 28/06/2019 11:08

In the UK the concept of self-defence is subject to the requirement that it should be reasonable. The law on reasonableness allows for a pretty wide ambit, acknowledging that in the heat of the moment you don't judge these things precisely. In a situation such as a fight, considerations such as whether the person attacked could simply walk away come into it.

I must say I struggle to see how shooting someone five times constitutes reasonable self-defence.

SerendipityJane · 28/06/2019 11:10

Given we already know the life chances of people of colour in Alabama are pretty disparate, maybe she should just have been charged with getting pregnant in the first place ?

What a great case for abusers this will be ! Finally the victim gets the blame and jail time, while the poor menz will be able to sue her for compensation for making him do it. Thank goodness there is somewhere in the world that has the sense - and courage - to finally say it how it is.

I hope he gets compensation for getting blood on his clothes too.

UserUndone · 28/06/2019 11:15

It's my belief, here in the UK, with so many crimes against women and children, so many of which going unpunished, that these 'crimes' are just not considered 'crimes' any more.

Very worrying.

MirriVan · 28/06/2019 11:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

diddl · 28/06/2019 11:18

If the charges against the shooter were dismissed-how/why???

Then surely they also will be against the other woman?

Could she have known that arguing with the other woman would result in her being shot in the stomach?

PicsInRed · 28/06/2019 11:21

Under his eye

Fatasfooook - exactly, well put.

Treefloof · 28/06/2019 11:23

Its OTT but I kinda agree she should be charged with child endangerment/neglect or something though as apparently she attacked first and the other woman acted in self defence

So she is technically responsible for her babies death
Did you actually mean this? Have you drunk some koolaid? Do you have a brain?

ProfessorSlocombe · 28/06/2019 11:25

In the UK the concept of self-defence is subject to the requirement that it should be reasonable. The law on reasonableness allows for a pretty wide ambit, acknowledging that in the heat of the moment you don't judge these things precisely. In a situation such as a fight, considerations such as whether the person attacked could simply walk away come into it.

There was the case in the UK only recently where a burglar was killed by a householder in self defence who face no charges.

HarrysOwl · 28/06/2019 11:31

She should absolutely be charged for disorder or assault (she initiated the violence) as well as endangerment (any reasonable person would not act in this way while pregnant), and whether the other woman should be charged with assault too (she did chose to fire a gun and that action killed the unborn baby) but self-defence is another thread altogether.

But for the woman to be charged with manslaughter of her own unborn baby? I can't even get my head around a state that would take this to court. It's crazy. The woman clearly needs help and her behaviour is awful, but it's still crazy to charge her and pursue a sentence.

theWarOnPeace · 28/06/2019 11:36

It’s fucked up, but I can actually see how the application of the law worked here. The shooter shot in self-defence, legal there. The victim caused the problem, which caused them to be shot, like they would say if it was a burglar that was shot, for example. It is illegal to cause the death of an unborn baby, therefore because the mother was the cause of herself being shot - she is responsible for her own baby’s death. It’s twisted and nuts, but their laws are twisted and nuts. All I can ever think is that nobody should be shooting anyone. Ever. For any reason. The concept of self-defence shooting feels so wrong to even contemplate. The gun laws, Trump and the treatment of black people are enough to put me off ever setting foot there again. So no I can’t get my head around it really, but as far as their bonkers laws go, I understand it.

BlingLoving · 28/06/2019 11:37

For a start, causing a fight may well be a legitimate cause for some kind of legal challenge, but causing a fight that then led someone else to shoot her and kill someone else would be ridiculous for her to be blamed. And the baby, terrible though this is, was NOT a legal person at the time.

The whole thing is so batshit crazy that I am still struggling to get my head around it. When I first read the headline I thought she'd shot her own belly in order to lose the baby as she couldn't access an abortion.

LizzieLookAtTheFlowers · 28/06/2019 11:37

@Nesssie Its OTT but I kinda agree she should be charged with child endangerment/neglect or something though as apparently she attacked first and the other woman acted in self defence.

YOU are banished to Alabama. Shoo!

ProfessorSlocombe · 28/06/2019 11:38

The shooter shot in self-defence, legal there.

so ? It's "legal" in the UK ....

ProteinshakesandAntonsbum · 28/06/2019 11:42

so ? It's "legal" in the UK

It legal in the UK to be out and about with a gun?

She should be charged with something. For starting the altercation. That's it!

LegionOfDoom · 28/06/2019 11:43

I’m scared for my children in this world

theWarOnPeace · 28/06/2019 11:44

I know it’s crap prof, I’m not saying that this is all excellent. I just mean it’s not unfathomable in terms of American law, that this would be the outcome. It’s unfathomable morally, and just totally insane that this ever even happened, but in terms of the law I can see how they applied it in this case. Shit, but legally (for them) correct.

FloatingthroughSpace · 28/06/2019 11:49

You know I was musing about this in relation to the Pomeroy / Pencille case (man stabbed on train, trial on this week). Watching the videos and listening to the testimony, it seems like Pomeroy escalated a minor situation. Pencille tried to move away to another carriage and was followed. He was called "special needs" and in the last few seconds of video he's in a corner with the larger Pomeroy more or less hounding him. Of course Pomeroy did not deserve to die and did not touch Pencille, but right up until he was stabbed, watching that video I would have called him the aggressor. In the USA would that be self defense?

LenoVentura · 28/06/2019 11:57

*I kinda agree she should be charged with child endangerment/neglect or something

Think this through. Go on, really try to think this through*

This ^

BrendasUmbrella · 28/06/2019 11:57

So she is technically responsible for her babies death

If we go down that road, we'll end up with women going into confinement sitting carefully in dark rooms like literal incubators. While of course also being in the wrong because pregnancy is not an illness and they should be working full time jobs and training for marathons...

Admittedly getting into a fight is not great behaviour at any time, but a person cannot stop being a person with their own individual reactions just because they have a foetus inside them.

Actually, going back to the pregnant marathon runner, if she happened to lose her baby at a later date, she would quite possibly go from being a symbol of female inspiration and empowerment into someone who was considered "technically responsible for her baby's death"...

BrendasUmbrella · 28/06/2019 12:00

Wait, the woman who shot her gets to pontificate on what her victim should be charged with?!

DoulaDaisy · 28/06/2019 12:03

'Self-defence' is not shooting someone FIVE times IN THE STOMACH when they know the other person is pregnant.

SerendipityJane · 28/06/2019 12:06

we'll end up with women going into confinement sitting carefully in dark rooms like literal incubators.

Actually, that's not a bad idea. I might suggest it to my MP. It might help boost the economy a bit, as you'll need catering contracts, laundry contracts, and obvious train up some people in the skills for monitoring and completing pregnancy.

If we extend the period into weaning, we also solve the issue of people having to witness breastfeeding without any warning.

I can see the UK becoming a world leader in Properly Planned Pregnancy. Or PPP as it should be referred to.

teyem · 28/06/2019 12:07

I mean, it's a new level really isn't it? It's horrifying in its own right but it is clearly a ruling that paves the way for all miscarriages to fall under scrutiny of crimes of recklessness.

Nesssie · 28/06/2019 12:12

I'm not saying its right, but that State has strict laws on the rights of unborn babies. So its not a stretch for them to apply this charge. @theWarOnPeace put it better than me.

JellyBaby666 · 28/06/2019 12:17

How the hell in 2019 the person who SHOT a pregnant women 5 times isn't charged but the pregnant woman who started the altercation is the one charged is BONKERS. How is this legal, how is it justified self defense, did she fear for her life? Alabama is a horrific place to be a woman.

Blessed be the fruit.