‘Two-child limit taking toll on family life’

[SweetMelodies]

www.itv.com/news/2019-06-25/two-child-limit-taking-toll-on-family-life-study-suggests/

So the first detailed research into families effected by the 2-child policy, where tax credits are only paid for the first two children unlike in the past when it was every child, has taken place and has found that families are suffering as a direct result of this.

A lot of comments on SM seem to forget that many many working families are effected as well. Even some families with ‘above-average’ incomes used to be entitled to tax credits for a third or subsequent child.

Any thoughts on this? I have mixed feelings as to whether it will work on in the long-run or not. Of course we all know families who have carried on having babies with no thought because each child has meant another monthly tax credits sum... but then there are also the families who are going to face one unplanned pregnancy that could push them into poverty and make their other children suffer.

For the don't have children you can't afford brigade... what do you suggest for contraceptive fail? Abortion? Or families who had wages coming in when they conceived, but lost jobs? Or women who had contributing partners who suddenly fucked off and abandoned their families (and the other way round)?

No on will argue that there are families who see benefits as a way of life, but the ones really suffering are the children. Should a parent's bad choice mean a child is forced into poverty, do children deserve that??

No on will argue that there are families who see benefits as a way of life, but the ones really suffering are the children. Should a parent's bad choice mean a child is forced into poverty, do children deserve that??

No, so I’ll say it again, barring cases of illness or disability I expect parents to stop making bad choices and start working their backsides off to support their own children instead of shifting the responsibility onto everyone else.

Thingsdogetbetter

No one will properly respond to this because they know it's inhumane. They will just keep repeating the same gibberish like a broken record because it's easier and comes up with no solution. We all know there are children that are going to suffer for this but they don't care.

We all know there are children that are going to suffer for this but they don't care.

Are the concepts of personal and parental responsibility totally alien to you?

You think you’re doing societal good by shielding people from the consequences of their bad choices? By enabling them to shirk their responsibilities?

You think you’re doing societal good by shielding people from the consequences of their bad choices?

Last I checked we weren't sending children down the mines anymore.

Last I checked we weren't sending children down the mines anymore.

WTF! 😂😂

WTF!

I'm glad you're beginning to realise how ridiculous it sounds to be spouting personal responsibility to kids who had no choice in who their parents were or what circumstances they were born in.

@GiggleMcDimples you can only do a level 2 course after completing a level 3 if you pay the full cost of the course yourself. Stop whipping people up into a frenzy about evil parents who force their children to stay at college so they can keep claiming £60 per week. It's ridiculous and doesn't happen.

The planet cannot take any more children. It just can't. We have to draw a line somewhere and somehow. The greater suffering of everyone of a failing planet outweighs the consequences to some children.

I'm glad you're beginning to realise how ridiculous it sounds to be spouting personal responsibility to kids who had no choice in who their parents were or what circumstances they were born in

Your reading comprehension needs some work, I must say. Let’s try this again:

Parents.... yes, parents.... need to take full responsibility... for their children... you know, the ones they chose to bring into the world.

Hope that helps

Your reading comprehension needs some work, I must say.

Your critical thinking needs some work, I must say.

How many times has it been explained to you? Humans are infallible! No matter what some parents will never do what they are supposed to do or will fall under circumstance which makes it impossible! You are punishing the kids for it. If you had 3 children, then had an accident, I would want my tax dollars to make sure ALL of your children were fed and cared for, not just the glorious first two.

Humans are not infallible*

Humans are infallible!

You mean fallible, my dear

You mean fallible, my dear

You have to be pretty salty to correct a typo I already corrected lol.

You are punishing the kids for it

The child’s parents are. They’re the ones failing to live up to their obligations. You can try to force the responsibility onto others, but don’t expect them to be happy about shouldering other people’s burdens.

If you had 3 children, then had an accident, I would want my tax dollars to make sure ALL of your children were fed and cared for, not just the glorious first two.

You’re assuming again! No, I wouldn’t. My children- my responsibility, no one else’s

@PatoPotato I wouldn't want to pay for that 4th child either. There are fool proof ways to ensure you don't have another child. It really isn't that hard. Bringing a life into this world is a huge responsibility. If they have an "accident" then yes an abortion or adoption are the choices.

There are fool proof ways to ensure you don't have another child. It really isn't that hard

Why is it too much to ask that people take some responsibility for their actions and choices, especially when contraception is free?

How many times has it been explained to you? Humans are infallible! No matter what some parents will never do what they are supposed to do or will fall under circumstance which makes it impossible! You are punishing the kids for it. If you had 3 children, then had an accident, I would want my tax dollars to make sure ALL of your children were fed and cared for, not just the glorious first two.

'Unplanned' pregnancy has absolutely no place in welfare policy. Normal, responsible people who are sexually active fall into one of three categories:

1. They are incredibly on top of their birth control, or;
2. They are OK with abortion if it's neccessary, or;
3. They can financially and emotionally accommodate a baby.

It is not OK to be sexually active and not fall into one of these three categories. It's an abject breach of personal responsibility, and not only direct line to a blank cheque from the wooly-headed but also a sorry state of affairs for the children involved.

This is before we even get started on the ecological implications, which are enormous.

Yes. If contraception fails and two people know they can not afford to give a baby a suitable life then the onus is solely on them. They damn well should consider abortion. Regardless of what they may want. Because the fundamental part of parenting is putting the child first.

If they then put their feels first and continue with the pregnancy then all financial suffering from then on out is solely down to them and their poor planning and decision making.

It is not down to the state to repair the damage.

AlaskanOilBaron&Contraceptionismyfriend

You both already know this is not solely about contraception, you're debating a straw man. It's about families where parents could both be working and for some reason fall on hard times, they may have had 3 children when they were both working but then one of them develops MS and the other becomes redundant as she becomes the carer for her partner. Life is always changing and like I said before we are all 1 medical tragedy away from our financial worlds being rocked. Perhaps I'm a bit superstitious but I find that people who think nothing will ever go wrong in their lives, tend to jinx themselves a bit.

It's a ridiculous draconian policy that is not that different to state enforced child limits and is only going to create more problems in the future.

It's purely political and there to appease a certain sector of the electorate and has elements of racism and social prejudice embedded in it.

It saves the treasury peanuts when you are looking at the UKs overall budgets.

The idea of people living on benefit street off the state is one that is pedalled and milked by the media - it is the vilification of whomever society decides is the current underclass. It is a prime example of fake news before fake news even existed.

Governments should never be passing policies that adversely affect children in this way. There are better ways to tackle social issues. Education programmes, access to work schemes, the list is endless.

You do not let children suffer in poverty - not in a civilised society. Guess we aren't so civilised after all.

Yes things go wrong. But why should the state fund more than 3?
Nobody needs children. They are not a right. They are not a necessity. The line had to be drawn somewhere and I think 2 is more than plenty.

So the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg or Boris Johnson can keep pumping out kids regardless, but the little serfs they directly make their money from aren't allowed to have any children . People are poor because low wages suit those at the top. Well there'll be a lot of complaints when there's no one in Tesco or Costa to serve you and no one cleaning your shitty bogs because the poor aren't breeding any more. Rich people have no more right to control the reproduction rate of poorer people than vice versa and environmental arguments stand for them too.

You both already know this is not solely about contraception, you're debating a straw man. It's about families where parents could both be working and for some reason fall on hard times, they may have had 3 children when they were both working but then one of them develops MS and the other becomes redundant as she becomes the carer for her partner. Life is always changing and like I said before we are all 1 medical tragedy away from our financial worlds being rocked. Perhaps I'm a bit superstitious but I find that people who think nothing will ever go wrong in their lives, tend to jinx themselves a bit.

This is such a weirdly passive view on life.

There are many things I can't control, but I am absolutely in control of the magnitude of the two major sources of uncertainty in my life: kids & health. I'll stop short of a detailed account of my risk mitigation strategy, but broadly the ones relevant to your point are that I had only two kids.

fabians.org.uk/child-poverty-in-the-uk/