To think you can't physically force somebody to have a late term abortion?

[Cringemum]

Just that really.

I was following the thread on the feminist board about the 22yo woman with LD's, who is 22 weeks pregnant, and a judge has ordered the pregnancy be terminated against her wishes.

The thread reached the maximum amount of comments before anybody was able to shed any light on my question.

I can't fathom how she can be physically forced to go through the procedure if she refuses to comply.

Could anybody shed any light on how exactly something like this could be enforced short of physically dragging her to the hospital and restraining her.

Horrible, horrible case by all accounts and my POV is that the judge has made the wrong decision - for the mother - I'm strictly pro choice in all situations but this doesn't sit right with me at all.

Many on the previous thread strongly disagree as is their prerogative but I don't understand how she can be made to go through with a termination?

Anybody?

What do you think judges do? They have to make difficult decisions every day that effect people’s lives.

That's why I feel the people here saying they are experts and they know best are naive.

I never claimed they knew best but they do know all the facts and they will have deliberated extensively on the outcome of this case. So they are the best people to make the decision. Surely it is more naïve to say you know better when you have fewer facts and no professional experience in making these difficult choices.

This decision has just been overturned by the court of appeal apparently.

@merrymouse

Or you could make a decision on, oh I don't know, your principles and ethics? Based on the fact that you're killing a child that the mother has said she wants to carry to term. I don't agree that someone with the mental ability of a 9 year old has zero capacity to understand or be told about the process of a child coming into the world.

I have had the procedure and no one did any of those things. It was a long time ago and I do not recall an injection but there were pessaries and it took a few hours

It is not a child at 22 weeks

Please bear in mind that there are women reading this who may have had this procedure carried out themselves, so be respectful

So speaks the woman who talked about dead babies when discussing a termination just a few pages ago...

Don't be so bloody ridiculous AmeriAnn
I can categorically tell you at this stage of pregnancy one of the options (& strongly suggested as it is humane) is for the foetus to have an injection that will stop the heart more or less immediately & so will not feel any pain.
(The injection works the same way as this: If you've ever had the sad occasion to have your terminally ill pet put to sleep & been there at the time, the moment from injection to death is seconds.)

in my naivety i assumed that although the decision had been made, a degree of consent would still be needed, if not from the pregnant mother herself then her next of kin

Why should a next of kin have a say? She's an adult. If she's not capable then the court's have to get involved. Which is rightly what happened here. People don't get to make decisions for other people. God forbid.

I’ve had to step away from a FB friend who is posting about murder and delivering a dead baby. She is RC and very anti-abortion. Very emotive posts about the state forcing women to have abortions. I tried to play devils advocate and state that a 22 week abortion is not deemed murder by the laws of this country, it is still legal. And that we do not have all the facts that the judge would have had. There is no right or wrong in this story it’s horrific all round. Of course I got it’s evil and wrong. What’s wrong is the poor woman got pregnant in the first place.

I’ve now read a post stating that the decision has been overturned and the woman is not being forced to have an abortion.

I can’t see any evidence that this decision has been overturned

AmeriAnn

Back under your rock please.

When folk say that "experts don't know best", what they mean is:

"This is a simple problem for which we have an accepted solution*, and I don't understand why we have to use a different solution to the one that we traditionally have in the past. An expert is putting forward a solution that challenges my traditional understanding of a problem, and it makes me angry / insecure so I will reject it."

• The problem is only simple to those who don't fully grasp it, or aren't directly affected by it.

** The solution is usually one that keeps others comfortable, but is a heavy price to pay for a less privileged person who is inevitably involved.

Logical discussion isn't what changes people's minds on these points. They need to be directly involved with victims and see the impact of the "accepted solutions" before they will change their minds.

Does anyone have any news links to the new ruling?

I can't find it online, looks like it might be a rumour?

If no one has to say the baby has died because she won't get it, why doesn't someone do the same thing after an adoption?

Because adopted children have the right to seek out their birth parents in later years.

You need permission to take a case to the court of appeal.

And? If there are good grounds of appeal it's really inevitable that permission would be given in a case like this. In fact, in cases of this nature permission is frequently given even with weak appeal grounds.

"** The solution is usually one that keeps others comfortable, but is a heavy price to pay for a less privileged person who is inevitably involved."

I think you are right about this.

I’ve now read a post stating that the decision has been overturned and the woman is not being forced to have an abortion.

So what would happen instead? If her mother raised the child the daughter would have to leave home. If the child was placed for adoption then would she have the understanding to know that her child had been taken away.

It seems more barbaric to force her to continue the pregnancy because her mother doesn't agree with the decision.

The woman’s mother has appealed the decision so it may be true.

I've reported the post with the inaccurate description. I hope others on the thread will do the same if it's not already deleted.

The social worker involved is in agreement with the babies grandmother that the pregnancy should continue.

Now, OP, you know from the other thread that that is a misrepresentation. The social worker is someone employed to put forward the case against termination, we have no idea what his or her personal views are.

If you have the mental capacity of a 6-9 year old just imagine the trauma of giving birth. Horrible case, right decision in my book. I do wish it could have been made earlier on.

I haven’t made a single unpleasant comment about you.

Yes, you have. You have repeatedly insisted that I am pro-life, which I find vile and deeply offensive. I support all women's right to a termination, including going above and beyond with donations and a my support to a local group. I've also explained to you that I've had my own termination. Now, please stop making offensive comments about me.