Really scared of bad men/relationships - would love to hear from people in good relationships

[Maryqueenofscots83]

I got out of an abusive relationship not so long ago. I am mid 30s, no kids, never married. This was my 4th abusive relationship in 15 years.

My question is, how can I avoid these relationships in future, and is there anyone here on Mumsnet who is in a relationship with a GOOD man who is consistently kind, respectful and not an abusive misogynist, to reassure me that they exist?

I'm convinced that about half of men in this world are not good men. I keep meeting them, I keep hearing about them from friends and family and I keep reading about them in the news. I am starting to wonder if men are naturally aggressive and uncaring people who will take what they can, even if it hurts someone else.

Examples:

• Threads here on Mumsnet (I've been lurking for a while) where women recount shockingly poor behaviour/abuse from their partners. Friends and family also tell me about shitty behaviour from their menfolk on a regular basis.

• Reports in the news about men who rape and abuse women and children

• Behaviour of the men I have dated. E.g. I recently signed up to online dating and dated a man who seemed lovely. It turned out he wasn't lovely at all - he had a fetish where he wanted me to act out being his young daughter (he actually involved me in this fetish without my consent and sprung it on me one day) then called me a shithead when I declined to be a part of it. So I blocked him.

I grew up in an abusive, dysfunctional family which is probably why I have put up with so much crap. I was in therapy for a few years over it. I have done extensive reading on red flags, I feel like I trust myself more than I used to. I've read 'Why Does He Do That?'

To avoid abusive men in future, I will be taking ages to sleep with a new man, take ages to get to know a new person and take it slow (this was my downfall in the past..I slept with men too quickly and then found it hard to separate once the abuse started), I've done the Freedom Programme, I've got myself out of debt and got plenty of savings. I will never share finances with a man again. I've signed up to a self defence course which is boosting my confidence.

I've become involved in a radical feminist group not sure if this is a good idea as it makes me feel angry at all the injustice. Honestly my experiences make me wish I was a lesbian, and wish I was attracted to women sexually. I now don't date men who appear to have a problem with feminists or make a big point of how they aren't feminists/feminist allies (my ex used to say this.)

I’m sorry you’ve had such a bad run of experiences OP. I wouid now be making a clear psychological break with the past and it sounds like you’ve already done so much to get yourself into a much stronger, safer place - a few years of therapy, the freedom programme and so on.

The fact is, the vast majority of men are decent people, just like women. They’re not a different species. I don’t think you need to be a racial feminist to find a decent man at all; you might tie yourself up with this tbh. I think it comes from self -respect and valuing yourself and once that’s in place, you just won’t tolerate anything less. Don’t rush anything. Remember it’s better to be on your own than let a fool drag you down.

I’ve had bad experiences too, but these men are the minority and I find most men are great. But then I just zone out from certain types and they’re irrelevant to me. Just don’t engage with any crap because life is too short.

I wish you all the best.

By going on the Freedom Programme course: www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

It teaches you the dynamics driving abuse and what healthy relationships look like, as well as early warning signs of abuse so you don't get sucked in.

You need to know what healthy relationships look like in the first place otherwise you stand little chance of building one, and you also need to understand the dynamics behind abuse (power and control).

Trying to spot abusive men based on a list of tactics is dangerously unreliable because such men are all different. The only way to identify them reliably is to understand what's going on behind the individual tactics and be able to see the patterns and motivations.

The Freedom Programme is free to attend, confidential, and they won't judge you. It's information not therapy so you won't have to share anything about yourself unless you want to. (It's not one of those things where you stand up and share your life story.) You can also repeat it more than once if you need more time and space to absorb and process everything they're teaching.

There is an online version available for £10 but I'd recommend going to the group if you possibly can (even if you do the online version first) because you will get so much more from it, be able to connect with others, ask questions, join discussions, etc.

@Pa1oma thanks for your thoughtful response x

@oneforthepain - I just finished the Freedom Programme (I mentioned it in my post but you must have missed it). I agree it was definitely worth doing x

Do you like yourself, OP? That's pretty much the most important thing in terms of protecting yourself. You need to be something you think is worth protecting...

What you've achieved is awesome. But nothing in your post talks about a sense of self worth.

Don't have much in the way of advice but just to say I am very disillusioned in the same way OP.

Op, I also grew up in a very, very dysfunctional family (you name it, it happened). Grew up being taught/encouraged to have a very dim view of men.
I had a few crappy relationships, nothing too bad, and I'm currently married to someone I met at school. We've been together for over ten years.
I don't know if my 'advice ' is useful or even advice, however what I 've found in my very limited experience, is that when I started caring about myself more, and valuing myself, I expected more from other people. I stopped settling and lowering my standards. It's almost tacky to say it, I will though: work on yourself. Fall in love with yourself first. People right for you will find their way to you.
Good luck!

My DH is now a fantastic husband and he has always been a good person. I say ‘now’ as we have both had several years of counselling after we had a difficult time early on in our marriage. I think you should also have counselling to get yourself right, then you will be in a better place to choose someone new and develop a healthy relationship with them

Thank you for starting your thread OP.

Congrats on getting yourself into a stronger place!

Re. Feminism, ISWYM with recognising systemic injustices & feeling angry. I find that hard too.

Would love to hear examples of what valuing oneself looks like. And how other women have cultivated this, in spite of dysfunctional families of origin.

Following with interest.

My advice is to not give anyone too many chances. If he does something disrespectful then dump him. Don't make the mistake of thinking someone might change.

First I just want to say I’m sorry you’ve had so many people hurt you.

Second, I think the best way is to have unbreakable standards that you keep for yourself. You could almost write a long list of behaviours that you want in a man, and a longer one of behaviours you WILL NOT put up with. And then stick to it. In my experience women get the men they think the deserve. You deserve someone awesome. The way to find one (eventually) is to swiftly filter out/avoid/instantly dump the ones who are less than awesome.

Does that make sense?

I’m with a lovely man now and although I’ve dated a wide range of weirdos they’ve all been nice weirdos who are kind and good to me. I’ve shaken off one or two twats in the really early stages (weeks in) and thank my lucky stars.

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences.

I don't want to discourage you, rather I hope to reassure you, when I say that, in my experience 99.9% of men are decent human beings. I would say that I've met slightly more unpleasant women than men, but they too are rare. I have many male friends (also female but that's not what this thread is about) who I've known for decades who I'm very, very fond of and who I'm confident would come to my aid if I asked. I've never seen them treat anyone badly, or heard of them doing so.

I have been treated thoughtlessly by people but I do tend to say something like 'that was unkind' or 'I found it hurtful when you said/did...' and mostly I've had an apology. I don't stay around such people for a repeat - life's too short. The occasional person who's not treated me well but who I've had to be around I've treated with cool courtesy, but not allowed close. I remind myself firmly that it's not me, it's him/her with the problem if I feel hurt.

I've only got into romantic relationships with people I've already got to know well, over years or at least many months, so I know their friends, and either know their family or know people who know their family. It's a kind of informal vetting - I know how they treat those around them. I also accept that those I'm fond of have bad days when they can be inconsiderate or anxiously defending their corner but they would hate to think they'd hurt someone.

I'm also happy with my own company. I'm taken aback by MNers who wouldn't go to the cinema or a restaurant alone. That means that were I to be worse off in a relationship than I am alone, I wouldn't have much to lose by ending the relationship.

Have a look at The Good Life, if it's still available. Margot Leadbetter - Penelope Keith's character - can be a bit OTT, but her underlying attitude to how she should be treated, and reaction to what she considers inappropriate behaviour, is a pointer in the direction of what anyone should expect!

One of my friends recently married - first time for both - someone she met in her late 40s, having been apparently happily single, but around plenty of men and women. They met, as most of my friends in happy relationships did, doing an activity that each enjoyed for it's own sake. Never despair.

I do hope it's helpful to read the experience of someone who finds men generally good. It's meant to be helpful. I wish you well.

It sounds like you’ve had a really tough time of it.

You said you’ve read a lot of threads on here - remember no one comes on to a forum to say “my partner and I had a minor disagreement, and as we have invested time in building a respectful relationship discussed how we felt and came to a compromise which worked for us as a couple”. You’ll see a darker side of relationships here as it’s a self selecting group who post, particularly on the relationships board.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to post, really appreciate it.

@StVincent:

"You could almost write a long list of behaviours that you want in a man, and a longer one of behaviours you WILL NOT put up with. And then stick to it."

I think this is a great idea.

@codemonkey - That's a hard question to answer in a way. I believe I have always liked myself, but the problem is that I was raised, almost brainwashed really to accept that other people have the right to treat me badly and I do not have the right to object.

I've also had the people who taught me not to value myself, around until a few years ago, sabotaging my relationships by encouraging me to accept abuse and telling me there's something wrong with me if I don't.

I've had to cut a lot of people (family members mainly) out of my life.

So I'm not sure where liking oneself fits into all that really. I haven't done anything in my life that leads me not to like myself. Interesting question.

@Lellikelly26 - thanks for posting, that's good to hear. I keep being told I need counselling but I have had it for several years so not sure if I should go back and do it again.

I think other PP are right. Focus on yourself, work on yourself. Forget about relationships for the time being.

OP, I’m so sorry you’ve had such a shit time. Other posters, as they’ve done, will be able to give you much better advice than me but I wanted to say, yes there are lovely men out there! Lots of them! My DP can be rubbish and shit sometimes and we can fight like cat and dog but there isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t think (even the worst days!) that I’m lucky to have him. And that he’s lucky to have me. They’re out there.

I made some bad choices with men in my teens and early twenties. I agree with a poster above about no or limited second chances. If they say something that implies a disrespectful attitude, they go. I wish I’d done that earlier with exes! It turned out that they were disrespectful generally.

Look at how they describe other women and exes. A bad sign is someone who describes all their exes in a negative way.

My DH is a smart, kind man. He isn’t your typical beery-down the pub-watching football bloke. He has always been free of that overly masculine trope that affects some men and whilst it’s not going to be the case for all men, for him that rejection of typical masculinity also goes with rejection of toxic masculinity. It confuses him that other men can behave like that.

@MirriVan

"They only real solution is to fully accept that you may never find a good one, and be prepared to be OK with that, and be OK to spend your life without a romantic sexual male partner.

If you can truly do this, then you are free to try men on for size, rejecting the ones who don't meet your standards."

I think this is really good advice. This is actually the thing I've been realising, in the last few days of pondering this matter on and off. I need to let go of my attachment to being in a relationship and finding 'the one'.

I've had such shitty experiences with men and yet I am still really wanting a relationship. I always assumed I would have a good one in the end but I realised maybe I won't ever find a lovely man who is compatible with me?

Some people never do, despite looking for it, and I should be prepared for that.

I think I've been buying into the 'soulmates' idea and every time I've met someone I think he's my soulmate. So I've put up with sh*t because I'm just dying for some happy ending.

My top tip would be to look beyond how they treat you and observe how they talk about other people/women, particularly those they don't like/get on with. If they act with decency and have basic respect for people they're not fond it's a good sign that they won't turn nasty to you even if your relationship doesn't work out perfectly.

@LangMayYerLumReek77

"Would love to hear examples of what valuing oneself looks like. And how other women have cultivated this, in spite of dysfunctional families of origin."

This is a good question...Some ideas that I have thought of just now:

• Valuing oneself enough to trust one's instincts and judgments about people e.g if an abusive person does something you know is shitty and then tells you it was actually acceptable, and you're just overly sensitive, then you value yourself enough to trust what you felt about it was VALID. This was a big one for me.

• Taking care of oneself like you would a child that is under your care. Eating well, exercising, finding ways to enjoy oneself/fun, seeking companionship/friendships etc.

• Valuing oneself enough to choose single hood over a bad relationship or someone abusive

• Valuing oneself enough to step away from things/people that make one feel bad e.g. negativity, drama or gossip etc

• Valuing oneself enough to ask to be paid sufficiently well in one's work, and not to be undercut or taken advantage of. Valuing one's skills and talents.

@Shoxfordian

"My advice is to not give anyone too many chances. If he does something disrespectful then dump him. Don't make the mistake of thinking someone might change."

Good advice.

@amicissimma

Thanks for sharing your experiences x