Really scared of bad men/relationships - would love to hear from people in good relationships

[Maryqueenofscots83]

I got out of an abusive relationship not so long ago. I am mid 30s, no kids, never married. This was my 4th abusive relationship in 15 years.

My question is, how can I avoid these relationships in future, and is there anyone here on Mumsnet who is in a relationship with a GOOD man who is consistently kind, respectful and not an abusive misogynist, to reassure me that they exist?

I'm convinced that about half of men in this world are not good men. I keep meeting them, I keep hearing about them from friends and family and I keep reading about them in the news. I am starting to wonder if men are naturally aggressive and uncaring people who will take what they can, even if it hurts someone else.

Examples:

• Threads here on Mumsnet (I've been lurking for a while) where women recount shockingly poor behaviour/abuse from their partners. Friends and family also tell me about shitty behaviour from their menfolk on a regular basis.

• Reports in the news about men who rape and abuse women and children

• Behaviour of the men I have dated. E.g. I recently signed up to online dating and dated a man who seemed lovely. It turned out he wasn't lovely at all - he had a fetish where he wanted me to act out being his young daughter (he actually involved me in this fetish without my consent and sprung it on me one day) then called me a shithead when I declined to be a part of it. So I blocked him.

I grew up in an abusive, dysfunctional family which is probably why I have put up with so much crap. I was in therapy for a few years over it. I have done extensive reading on red flags, I feel like I trust myself more than I used to. I've read 'Why Does He Do That?'

To avoid abusive men in future, I will be taking ages to sleep with a new man, take ages to get to know a new person and take it slow (this was my downfall in the past..I slept with men too quickly and then found it hard to separate once the abuse started), I've done the Freedom Programme, I've got myself out of debt and got plenty of savings. I will never share finances with a man again. I've signed up to a self defence course which is boosting my confidence.

I've become involved in a radical feminist group not sure if this is a good idea as it makes me feel angry at all the injustice. Honestly my experiences make me wish I was a lesbian, and wish I was attracted to women sexually. I now don't date men who appear to have a problem with feminists or make a big point of how they aren't feminists/feminist allies (my ex used to say this.)

I grew up with an abusive father, and my parents relationship was a terrible example to a growing woman.

It’s weird, i’m Not sure how it happened that i’ve Ended up in a fantastic marriage.

DH is the most wonderful human I know. Kind, funny, patient, honest, strong, silly, hardworking, creative, sexy and such a good dad. I am so in love with him, 10 years together and I still look at him and melt. I’m so incredibly lucky to be with him.

I think it’s key though that I also know that he’s lucky to be with me. I’m fortunate and have worked damn hard over my life on my own self worth. I know what I deserve and I make sure I don’t let myself down.

I’ve also never been desperate for a relationship, as my parents marriage and my father made me mistrust men and not be interested in marriage. And i’m Not conventionally attractive, which I think has protected me from a lot of blokes that are motivated by sex and power and the need to possess women. I also spent most of my 20’s much more interested in my career than relationships. By the time I met DH I was pretty strong, independent and able to know what I wanted. I think that helped.

I always listen to how men talk about other women. Does he call his ex ‘psycho bitch’? When he disagrees with what another woman says or does, does he say stuff like stupid bitch, stupid woman or male derogatory sexual remarks like slag, she needs a good shag, she’s a cunt, slut, walking spunk trumpet (all spotted on forums this week about women when the subject had absolutely nothing to do with sex) This is very telling and easy to spot even when they are on their best behaviour toward you at the start of the relationship.

I'm another with a lovely dh. He's not a handsome, rich, alpha male but he's unfailingly kind, funny and decent and that's far more attractive. I agree with the pp up thread who says there's no such thing as a soulmate which to me suggests romantic bells and whistles. I'd be wary actually of romantic stuff because I've seen too many people use it as a way to get what they want and that sort of selfishness isn't compatible with the sort of equal relationship I want. I also don't trust men with a twinkle in their eye... All the ones I've ever met have been players. I think someone up thread gave the best advice - forget about a relationship for now you need to learn to love yourself, enjoy your own company and make friends who share I terests. Once you are secure and happy and with a good support network I would consider joining something like spice or other clubs for your interests, but tbh I really think you need to look at a relationship as being a nice add in if it's the right one but not something you really w
Need because the latter mindset will make you more likely to settle for crap

I've been incredibly lucky. My parents relationship modelled what I expected from relationships - even though they're both in their 70s they are very equal, worked split shifts to cover childcare equally, my dad did most of the cooking (mainly because mums hopeless at it!), shared housework etc equally, very affectionate (despite constant low level bickering!). All my brothers grew up to be great cooks (and have much tidier houses than me....).

That foundation really helped. Every relationship bar one has been with a kind, considerate man. The one that wasn't so great I met through online dating funnily enough and I had a weird vibe off his friends... I met dp through friends and in fact all my good ex's had lovely friends.I suppose it's a measure of someone's character as to who else wants them in their life.

I'm sorry for your experiences, there are good people out there.

Absolutely agree with PP who says listen to how he talks about other women, this is such a tell. In fact I came back to say it this morning because that had occurred to me over night, then saw the PP had already mentioned.

All the decent men I've been with have talked positively about the majority of their exes, and often are still friends with them, that is an incredibly good sign. I've sometimes met the exes in the early stages and they've told me 'he's a gud'un, just not for me', or similar. Similarly I've given a good reference when an ex of mine has wanted to date a friend. Also I've never heard any of them refer negatively to women as an entire sex, however drunk or expansive they were.

Is it okay to offer a male perspective?

The world is awash with good men, just as it is awash with good women. It's also awash with bad men, just as it is with bad women. It's not always easy to tell them apart.

My advice is to cultivate a life where you are happy and content being by yourself. That way, anybody who happens to find their way into it is there because they add something, and you WANT them there, rather than NEEDING them there. If you're happy in your own company, there's never any fear in casting aside somebody who doesn't measure up to what you deserve. In fact, the bar is set higher because being in a relationship requires that you will make some compromises in your life (even if only finding time for it) - and when you're loving every minute of life, you'll only be willing to do that for someone awesome.

Also, cultivate male friendships where there is no suggestion of romantic interest. That'll help you to see how decent men behave, and give you a benchmark against which to assess any potential romantic interests.

That's what I did after getting out of an abusive and - ultimately - violent marriage. My trust in women was shaken. But, since I have some great female friends, plus amazing daughters, I haven't fallen into the trap of believing "all women are like this". That might(?) be particularly important for you - you describe yourself as getting into "radical feminism", and the tone of your posts starts to get close to making blanket assumptions that all men are, indeed, like this. I'm a feminist, but when you get over that line into believing that all men are bad, rather than - say - being rightly cross about power structures, that's when it turns into bigotry of its own kind. Good friends of the opposite sex are important for everyone, because they help all of us to challenge ourselves when we start making assumptions about "men" or "women" as a homogenous group.

And I focussed for a couple of years on me (understanding why I tolerated what I did, and doing the hard work on me, so that I can look myself in the eye in the mirror, and honestly say "never again"); my girls (being a point of loving stability and consistency for them, irrespective of their mum's latest antics); and building a life I love.

I've never been happier - life is amazing now. My girls and I are incredibly close, and fill life with adventures. When they're with their mum, I have a great group of male and female friends, and hobbies that I love - climbing mountains, open water swimming, and outdoor adventuring of any kind. Life is really full. Which means that - now I'm meeting people again - it takes real compromise to invest time in someone. So they have to be worth it, and I don't feel I'm losing anything when I decide someone isn't quite right.

I'm a feminist, but when you get over that line into believing that all men are bad, rather than - say - being rightly cross about power structures, that's when it turns into bigotry of its own kind

I could have written that myself. There are so many men who have been burned that hate women in general because of it. ‘Untrustworthy, manipulative, deceitful’ are all words I’ve heard about women from men like this.

But then I read more into feminism and found the ‘strands’ of it. Wanting equal political, social and financial freedoms is one thing. Going down the rabbit hole and seeing all men through the hard left lense of radical feminism is indeed, its own form of bigotry.

I once saw someone on here saying, ‘There are men that hate women and are sexist pigs, there are women that hate men and see them all as predators.
Then there are the rest of us that just want to get on with each other.’

I thought that was quite true.

@SlightlyMisplacedSingleDad Just to let you know, radical feminism has nothing to do with man hating.

Radical means 'root'. Radical feminists want to change the root of the problems faced by women. Thats going to mean changing the structure of society to remove inequalities.

Liberal feminism concerns itself with the happiness of the individual, not the structure the individual lives in.

Some really amazing and thoughtful posts here, and I’m glad you like my list idea. If you have a good female friend, get her round for a bottle of wine/cup of tea and just WRITE IT. It’s honestly helpful to think it out.

I also wanted to reassure you - although I was lucky to grow up in a mostly very nice home, my own mum and my best friend both had abusive childhoods but have both found fab husbands. They both have their own issues, to say the least, but through a combination of luck and I think fighting spirit have come to realise their own worth and end up in kind supportive relationships with men who think they’re the best thing ever.

Really agree with everyone saying zero tolerance is important. Here are some reasons I’ve dumped people (or realised after that I should have):

• often getting angry when drunk (not at me)
• acting cold to me or having double standards about my behaviour ie trying to “discipline” me for perfectly normal things
• criticising all my clothes and suggesting he should decide what I wore
• seeming really “into” violence ie v violent cartoons and games combined with a bad attitude about “rejection”

Radical means 'root'. Radical feminists want to change the root of the problems faced by women. Thats going to mean changing the structure of society to remove inequalities.

Thanks for posting that. I sort of knew I was wrong for using that term but struggled to articulate what I meant. Maybe ‘hardcore’ feminism would be better.

I’m struggling to articulate the ‘strand’ you sometimes come across.

I’ e been in a mostly very happy relationship for 17 years. I chose someone who had similar values to me so we don’t often argue about the ‘big’ things, politics, money, rules for the kids etc. I chose someone smart too. And we are 50/50 on things like childcare, housework. It helps that I do and have always fancied the pants off her too.

And I know I married a woman so that’s cheating but I am surrounded by good decent blokes. My dad is an absolute star, both my BILs adore their wives and treat them with respect, my best male friend is a fantastic dad who spends loads of time with his kids and boring stuff as well as the fun stuff with them, and most the other dads I know - even the ones that ended up divorced- are pretty good, decent human beings just getting in with life.