Really scared of bad men/relationships - would love to hear from people in good relationships

[Maryqueenofscots83]

I got out of an abusive relationship not so long ago. I am mid 30s, no kids, never married. This was my 4th abusive relationship in 15 years.

My question is, how can I avoid these relationships in future, and is there anyone here on Mumsnet who is in a relationship with a GOOD man who is consistently kind, respectful and not an abusive misogynist, to reassure me that they exist?

I'm convinced that about half of men in this world are not good men. I keep meeting them, I keep hearing about them from friends and family and I keep reading about them in the news. I am starting to wonder if men are naturally aggressive and uncaring people who will take what they can, even if it hurts someone else.

Examples:

• Threads here on Mumsnet (I've been lurking for a while) where women recount shockingly poor behaviour/abuse from their partners. Friends and family also tell me about shitty behaviour from their menfolk on a regular basis.

• Reports in the news about men who rape and abuse women and children

• Behaviour of the men I have dated. E.g. I recently signed up to online dating and dated a man who seemed lovely. It turned out he wasn't lovely at all - he had a fetish where he wanted me to act out being his young daughter (he actually involved me in this fetish without my consent and sprung it on me one day) then called me a shithead when I declined to be a part of it. So I blocked him.

I grew up in an abusive, dysfunctional family which is probably why I have put up with so much crap. I was in therapy for a few years over it. I have done extensive reading on red flags, I feel like I trust myself more than I used to. I've read 'Why Does He Do That?'

To avoid abusive men in future, I will be taking ages to sleep with a new man, take ages to get to know a new person and take it slow (this was my downfall in the past..I slept with men too quickly and then found it hard to separate once the abuse started), I've done the Freedom Programme, I've got myself out of debt and got plenty of savings. I will never share finances with a man again. I've signed up to a self defence course which is boosting my confidence.

I've become involved in a radical feminist group not sure if this is a good idea as it makes me feel angry at all the injustice. Honestly my experiences make me wish I was a lesbian, and wish I was attracted to women sexually. I now don't date men who appear to have a problem with feminists or make a big point of how they aren't feminists/feminist allies (my ex used to say this.)

@BrightRight

"You’ll see a darker side of relationships here as it’s a self selecting group who post, particularly on the relationships board."

That is a good point.

The Gift of Fear has some good advice for spotting those types in the very early stages, and how to put them off.
You can download these or read them online;
Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker
tinyurl.com/GiftoFear

Lundy Bancroft - why does he do that?
tinyurl.com/LundyWhy

Thanks for sharing tips/advice ,
@Fatted,
@user1473878824
@Smelborp
@WantLifeToBeBetter

@TheInebriati - read both of those books :-)

My DP is incredible. He is kind without fail, sweet, intelligent and funny. He has never batted an eye at the fact I have a daughter and has never made me feel like he wishes she wasn't there. He gives her breakfast and sits with her every Sunday without fail so I can have a lie in and every Mother's Day he helps her make me breakfast in bed. He is my best friend and the person who knows me inside and out and who never judges me. I adore him, he hasn't an unfaithful or unkind bone in him and I'm so so lucky that he thinks I'm the most gorgeous woman on the planet. I never thought I could trust a man again - it has never even been questioned with him.
They are out there!

@Orlandointhewilderness - thank you for sharing. I love hearing stories like that

I'm sorry you've had such a tough time, and I'm in awe of the work you've done to change your future.

I work with mainly men, I'm best friends with men, and I've dated quite a lot of men. The vast majority are decent human beings. I don't know if I've been very lucky to mainly date lovely lovely kind, considerate, honest men, or whether I've been successful at filtering out the bad'uns early on.

I've dated 3 men who were probably not good men and I've had near misses:

1. Teenage relationship, he was pushy and didn't listen when I didn't want to sleep with him. Fortunately we were interrupted so I was able to get away.
2. Friend who I instinctively knew was ok as a friend, but not someone to date. I did end up dating him, and there were early warning signs that made me break it off. A lack of respect for me, refusal to use condoms, something just felt off.
3. Guy I dated, who later called me a slut because I didn't sleep with him (go figure).
4. Guy who, when I got cystitis which he could definitely be partly to blame for, refused to leave his computer games to give me a lift to the doctors.

All of these warning signs were enough to make me stop dating them immediately, or within a few weeks. They didn't get second chances. I should add that all were well-off, presentable, well-educated etc, they all looked ok, and seemed ok at first, but underneath they weren't.

The rest of the men I've dated, married or had long-term relationships with me have all been kind, considerate, do their fair share of housework, don't expect to control my life or finances, in fact they actively encourage my independence, whilst always being ready to step up and provide support if needed. They've all been feminists, always respectful around sex. Whilst there is quite a bit of banter with some of them, it's not nasty banter and I give as good as I get. I would never tolerate verbal slurs made in seriousness/anger - there's a difference between a laughing 'god you had me going there, you are such a bitch/bastard', and a 'you bitch' meant in anger.

The best way to describe a healthy relationship is that it feels like equals, in a mutually-supportive relationship, where you're both free to be yourselves, but are always there in the background if needed.

I'm very happily married, and have had a number of healthy happy relationships. However, I wouldn't say any of them are a "soulmate", in fact I don't believe such a thing exists - it's not really logical. It makes more sense that there are a number of potential matches out there, some better for us than others. I don't expect any man to provide everything I need emotionally, and instead you could say I maintain a portfolio of friends, including numerous men, all of whom provide something that I need, whether that be emotionally, shared interests etc, and I hope I do the same for them in return.

I don’t blame you after your experiences. I’d definitely look into therapy first as something about these men is attracting you to them in the first place. Did you grow up in an abusive home?

ODFOD. They hide who they are. Did you not know that?

I wouldn't have looked twice at my current dh if I hadn't had such a rough relationship with my first. He's quiet, hard working, funny, loyal, brilliant with my kids and I find him really sexy as well! Hes not perfect obvs but neither am I.
I wasn't looking for anything serious when we met. Not all men are bastards honestly.

Hi @TheInebriati what does ODFOD mean please?

They hide who they are. Did you not know that?

I’m actually trying to help OP unlike you. I don’t want her to be in this situation again. And it’s a basic psychological fact someone who’s not come from a healthy family dynamic is more likely to end up in an abusive relationship.

I’m not blaming the OP!!!! I went out with a violent alcoholic ffs.

@Hithere12 - I think maybe you skimmed my post and missed the bits where I say I came from an abusive family and have done extensive therapy.

Yes you are right, they do hide who they are to some extent I think there are still ways to tell who they are. The mask slips occasionally. The talking badly about all their exes is one definite sign. It becomes harder over time to maintain the mask.

@Pollaidh - thank you for sharing your experiences, appreciate it x

I think it's definitely true that people who were abused growing up are more likely to end up with an abuser in a romantic relationship, because they have been conditioned to accept the unacceptable.

I think it's also true that abusers try to hide who they are, but they aren't always that good at it so as mentioned the mask does slip. They can do a pretty good job of pretending at first, hence the need to take it really slow and see who someone is over time rather than move in with someone straight away.

Or even have sex with someone straight away, as that can cloud your judgment and a clear head is required for sussing out these men.

There are so many good men out there OP!

Most respect the other people in their lives and do their best to do the right thing - just like the rest of us. I know many - have worked with many and am related to many ... and don't think my experience is all that unusual.

I've heard of bad/weird/perverted/revolting men (on here and in the news) but don't actually know any.

In my own past experience:

I met one bad one - as a child - and know of one other (though I never saw the behaviour that got him locked up).

Perhaps dating agencies attract the wrong sort? It sounds as if you have been unlucky so far - especially in your start in life.

Just don't give up and don't allow the rubbish ones you have met spoil things in your future.

@1Wildheartsease thanks for posting & sharing your experiences x

Yes online dating has not been fruitful so far, I'm going to give it a miss for now.

DP is without arrogance or entitlement and just a good, considerate person. Endlessly patient and reasonable with his two dc and with mine. He is perceptive and funny, and good in bed but never pushy or pressure-y.

He isn’t remotely “alpha” though and doesn’t seem to mind about that sort of thing. Perhaps that is key. He isn’t conventionally handsome or physically powerful, or financially well off; and in a different type of man perhaps some of that would lead him to feel secretly inadequate or have something to prove. I think insecurity stemming from toxic ideas of masculinity can often come out in really nasty, unexpected ways in men who on the surface present as “nice guys”. I have experienced that with other men, and it’s so depressing when you realise: he isn’t who I thought he was.

But DP honestly just seems to have somehow ended up being secure in himself in a low-key way, and that just makes him awesome. I now find him gorgeous even though he’s slightly eccentric looking and not really athletic or stylish. He does have a fantastic creative talent, and I do find that attractive. Maybe he might not give all women a frisson of excitement; but I was really looking for genuine kindness and a kindred spirit, and I feel I have hit the jackpot.

And he takes all spiders away, efficiently and without ever making me feel bad about it, and puts them outside.

I've been through several bad men/ bad relationships. OK, I was right the first time because I've never had a bad girlfriend.

But I am with a good man now. He's not perfect, at all. We have some issues. But they aren't based on financial abuse, sexual abuse, control, verbal abuse, gaslighting etc. They're based on things we individually need to sort. Like the fact we are both weeble shaped and it's hard to dtd!

There are gooduns out there. I honestly can't tell you how to find one. I got very lucky, I wasn't looking. We struck up a friendship first.

When you're in a bad place psychologically, you'll attract people who reinforce those feelings of worthlessness, low self esteem etc. When you're happy with yourself, you won't jeopardise that by going out with people who are likely to take that away from you.

You need to get into a good place mentally before dating anyone. Be that through therapy, self help, lots of hobbies, friends or whatever, you need to build a life where a man is only a nice addition, not the foundation of it.

I would suggest spending some time on your own
Spend time with family
Spend time with friends
Travel, holiday
Volunteer
Join some clubs or sports
Try new things
Once you are happy with yourself. Then it is time to think about another relationship. Make a list of must have for future relationship
Make a list of what not to have in future relationship
Be clear about what YOU want
Be happy with yourself

There is no rush

I wouldn't go as far to say that almost all men are decent. Many men nowadays (especially younger ones, and over 90% not genuine on dating sites) are not genuine. But it would be unfair to say all men are bad. There are some genuine men about, just hard to find and the older ones seem to be more mature. I would focus on you, read books, take courses or help for healthy relationships and also if you're ready for it help on your childhood and upsetting past issues.

Most younger men want sex and lots aren't genuine and have a way to woo women into bed and then bugger off, I've also had some pretty nasty messages off of guys and my friends have which would leave your jaw dropping in horror at how they speak to women for turning down sex etc. Lots are narcissistic and like to show off their gym bods and flashy cars and clothes but most of the time are really insecure- guy friends have told me that about their friends who are gym fanatics themselves.

The problem with men is they are brought up to not show their problems as to look weak, so if they have a tough childhood, some of them can turn into abusers to protect themselves from being abused or getting hurt instead of being honest and looking 'vulnerable', which is partly contributing to why the male suicide rate is probably unfortunately shockingly high. Women are more emotional and loving, we are seen as okay to open up as that's what women do. It's a shame some men feel the need to put on a brave face and not solve issues from their past or childhood, and open up. A lot of men are commitment phobic because of past traumas.

Not just men, women can be a nasty bunch too with their own issues and be clingy, controlling, violent etc. I've lost lots of male friends when they met a woman. Generally speaking when I say "you", can't think all men are abusers/paedophiles/bad people. That's unfair.

I had a few relationships with decent men and I avoided the bad ones. I’m married to the most wonderful man and I say most men are good.
True, I had a massive list. None of that “tall, dark and handsome”, more like “respectful, honest, kind”.
Maybe, I had a knack but there are always little things the other person does that set off alarm bells. From being strangely tight with money, having old fashioned/terrible opinions on women (virgin/mother vs slut complexes or claiming all his exes were rubbish), lack of friends or family contact (sure you can have a dodgy family but coupled that with lack of long term friendships for me that was a red flag), recurrent drink/gambling/addiction issues, anyone who didn’t treat me well. (I don’t give a fig if you buy me Chanel but I do care if we are out and you’re checking every single woman around.)
I wanted a feminist because I didn’t want anyone With “women stay at home” views as I’m the polar opposite of that, I wanted someone who treated as equal but understood my physical limitations. (I can argue my case but at 5’2 and 8st at the time, not in position to move a sofa up 2 flights of stairs)
I grew up with a DF that thought the world of me and supported me wholeheartedly. But at the end of the day, I refused to settle for anything less. I was worth more as I could offer more. Alone was always better than a rubbish man in my life.

First of all, I just wanted to say I'm sorry that some people aren't even bothering themselves to read your posts properly, Mary - you're being remarkably patient with them!

I think a lot of this comes down to pure, dumb luck. And by that, I mean accident of birth.

I am forever grateful and appreciative of the stork for delivering me where he did.

I was brought up by two parents who loved me, and who loved each other. My late DF was a gentle soul, who considered my DM to be his best friend. They were both very social and had lots of friends, but I remember being when my brother asked DF who his best friend was, and he said DM. It was such a light bulb moment in my formative years.

It was very clear that they liked each other. They were supportive of each other, talked together and just got on. It was a fantastic relationship template, as that has been the foundation of all my relationships.

I have liked all my boyfriends / partners / DH.

Put love (and certainly lust) aside for a moment. Do you like the person you're with? Because if you don't, then what's the point? Why are you with them?

All of my exes were (are!) nice men. They just weren't right for me as a partner, long-term. One thing they all have in common is that they all have women friends. Platonic friendships with women, because they like them and get on with them.

A few PPs have said their DHs aren't alpha men. My DH is. But not in a macho, arrogant, threatening or intimidating way.

He is charismatic. He's confident, outgoing, social, friendly, and draws people to him. He's inevitably the cog in his social wheel(s).

He's nice. He's the cog because people want to be around him.

Have you heard about 'shark cage' theory? I'm sure you must've. It's essentially what a lot of people are saying - you need to be mindful of red flags, and ready to reject men as soon as they start waving one. Even if they look as if they might just be reaching for a flag. They need to be gone.

I know this sounds very victim-blame-y, but people treat you as well - or as badly - as you allow yourself to be treated. I expect this comment to be roundly pounced upon by many. But I stand by it.

If you have a zero tolerance policy, then you sort the wheat from the chaff very early on.