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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel annoyed that I missed out on a job because I am a woman

320 replies

curtainsy · 20/06/2019 19:28

I've just started back at work after 12 months off for maternity leave. Before I went off I had a meeting with HR and my manager to go over my rights etc. One of the things HR said was that they have to keep me informed of job vacancies.

I have now started back and found out that a promotion came up within my team 2 months ago. Four colleagues applied and one of them was appointed. AIBU to be absolutely raging that I wasn't informed?
I don't actually know what to do about it as it's all been done now and he is in this new job so I feel like complaining is pointless.

OP posts:
Beingnicetomyself · 20/06/2019 23:44

*at

Aus84 · 20/06/2019 23:49

@Cheby
(I walked back into a promotion after mat leave, for reference)

Me too, I had 3 sets of maternity leave and was still promoted several times above staff who didn't because I was the right person for the job and my workplace kept me informed. OP definitely say something. It's not right.

SnowyAlpsandPeaks · 20/06/2019 23:56

Reality is if they had their eye on you for the job, they would have contacted you, because they wanted you in that role. The fact the didn’t contact you, means you weren’t on their radar. My last promotion, 5 members of the team were annoyed they found out the job was available a week after we’d had our department meeting and not during it- I found out as soon as the meeting was over and told my time of interview at the same time, I got the job.

notacooldad · 20/06/2019 23:57

notacooldad there was a strong implication in your post that the OP should have worked harder at keeping in touch with her workplace. I didn't see any recognition by you that the workplace itself was it fault
I didn't mean to imply anything and sorry if it came out that way, I was initially being conversational about kit days and commenting on what I had observed. I said it would never have occurred to me that people would have been forgotten about or not informed and after seeing colleagues making sure she was still up to date with her password seemed a good idea to me and would suggest it to people if they were going off to keep up to date if they could as mistakes do happen. This post is proof. I did say people shouldn't and it wasn't right but if you can and want to maybe it's an idea? However I also said it may not be possible for everyone to do this. All of my colleagues live in our very small borough and we all live no more than 15 mins drive. M

notacooldad · 20/06/2019 23:59

This is clearly and issue you have no experience or knowledge of

Even more assumptions!! I'll be losing count soon!!
😂😂😂😂😂

Nicknacky · 21/06/2019 00:00

notacooldad So tell us, what is your experience in women’s maternity rights?

Beingnicetomyself · 21/06/2019 00:01

"I didn't mean to imply anything and sorry if it came out that way" - fair enough, thanks for clarifying

Nicknacky · 21/06/2019 00:02

I live 5 mins away from one of my offices. Like fuck was I going in weekly/fortnightly/monthly with a baby to check what they should have been telling me.

That’s not reasonable.

MsFanackerPants · 21/06/2019 00:02

LA employee here too. When I completed all my maternity leave paper work one of the forms ask about being notified of employment opportunities (or wording if that nature). I ticked yes and it asked for. I got the weekly internal jobs listings sent to my personal email. I applied for and got a promotion whilst still on mat leave and came back to work after just shy of a year's mat leave. As a PP noted a year away from office politics and the day to day grind of the more mundane aspects meant my mind was really focused on strategy and development rather than the time consuming but ultimately unproductive aspects of the role.

timeisnotaline · 21/06/2019 00:06

Call acas and complain to hr. they should have informed you and they are at fault .The number of women on this thread who have zero clues about women’s rights when on maternity leave is frightening.

notacooldad · 21/06/2019 00:09

notacooldad So tell us, what is your experience in women’s maternity rights?
They are pretty first hand. I have had two lots of maternity leave. During the second one my job was made redundant and had a lot of stres to have a new job to go back to which included meeting with the union and having interviews.

HeyDuggeesCakeBadge · 21/06/2019 00:12

You should have been told.

In a previous role I had to deal with a case where the company ended up paying a lady a few grand for doing this exact thing after she claimed maternity discrimination.

furryleopard · 21/06/2019 00:22

This happened to me too, LA job. Just before I went on maternity leave my line manager said 'I'd act you up to this job but you're off soon so I can't' which was crap enough but then while I was off they advertised the job for a 6m temporary appointment and they ring fenced it to my grade, in my immediate team, so my three colleagues all went for it, they didn't tell me though and I had asked to be notified of jobs and similar. My colleague (who hadn't been there as long as me, and does literally no work at all, but is a good talker) got it, and then just before I came back, the actual week before, they just gave it to her permanently. I was gutted and complained to my line manager he said 'well, xx got it from a fair recruitment' and just refused to see my point. I'm not in the Union so they refused to help and I didn't want to put my head above the parapet by doing anything other than making it known I was pissed off. 3 long years went past before I got my promotion to that grade in a different team (ironically while I was pregnant). I went for several other promotions in my wider team and was unsuccessful every time.

Isitmybathtimeyet · 21/06/2019 00:22

What a fucking depressing thread. MN seems to be filling up with so many awful attitudes.

OP, go in and give HR hell.

Reality is if they had their eye on you for the job, they would have contacted you, because they wanted you in that role. The fact the didn’t contact you, means you weren’t on their radar. My last promotion, 5 members of the team were annoyed they found out the job was available a week after we’d had our department meeting and not during it- I found out as soon as the meeting was over and told my time of interview at the same time, I got the job.

Thankfully this is not how the public sector is meant to operate.

LittleRedMushroom · 21/06/2019 00:32

This happened to me when I was still in work full time. Male colleague at the same level got promoted to my boss, but I never saw the job advert - because there wasn't one.
I walked into HR and asked to see the job advert for the new position. I said I wanted to apply for the job - how could I do that? HR director fobbed me off with pure BS. I had the choice of legal action or putting up with it. I chose the latter. But 22 years later I really regret that choice.

NoSquirrels · 21/06/2019 00:42

FUCK ME THIS THREAD HAS GIVEN ME THE RAGE.

How in the name of fuck can anyone argue the OP wasn’t discriminated against because she was a woman on maternity leave?

Clue’s in the name, assholes. She was on leave - she wasn’t obliged to be checking work email. And it was leave for maternity reasons, conveying specific protections.

Flaming Nora. Makes me feel almost grateful about the time I had yo negotiate restructure/redundancy whilst on maternity leave!

Petitprince · 21/06/2019 00:56

Did you not do keep in touch days OP? These are useful for this kind of thing, and can keep your work login active while you are off. You can take up to 10 and they are paid at full rate.

BetsyBigNose · 21/06/2019 02:15

I'm on your side @curtainsy. I've been both the woman on maternity leave who received regular print outs of the internal vacancy list posted to my home address during my 12 months away from the office and the HR Adviser responsible for organising this for women on maternity leave. Granted; my most recent experience of these was around 10 years ago, but I totally agree that this was absolutely the law at the time, so unless it has changed dramatically in the meantime; YANBU and your employer certainly is!

In the first instance, I would set up a formal meeting with HR to discuss 'a possible case of sex discrimination' and see if you can get your hands on the Maternity Policy which outlines that they are obliged to inform you of vacancies during your Maternity Leave and most importantly; the Job Description and Person Specification (JD & PS) for the role you missed out on applying for.

In advance of the meeting, ensure that your CV is up to date and as relevant to the JD &PS as you can make it and go through the JD & PS marking which criteria you meet and how, making notes of relevant experience, as if you were putting together an application for the role. At the meeting, you need to tell them of your expectation that you would be kept informed of vacancies during your leave and point out where this is detailed in their own policy. You then go on to let them know that it has come to your attention that they have failed to inform you of X vacancy and that this is in breach of their policy, the law and equals discrimination on the grounds of sex (as this could not happen to a man as he could not be on Maternity Leave and therefore the policy would never apply to them).

Once they are on the back foot, you can explain that it's particularly troubling to you in this case as, given the opportunity, you would certainly have applied for the role and having studied the JD & PS (wave your annotated copy and CV under their noses), you feel strongly that you would have almost certainly have secured an interview and would have stood an excellent chance of securing the role, based on your skills and experience. Then you can say that you're sure they have plenty to discuss, so you'll leave that with them and you will look forward to their written response within 5 working days.

You should also familiarise yourself with the organisation's Grievance Policy, in case they don't take you seriously, or try to brush you off. In which case, you will need to raise an official Grievance and follow their process.

It's worth deciding before you meet with HR exactly what it is you want from this. Do you want to be offered the same job and work alongside the man who was originally offered the role? Do you simply want to make sure that they do as they are supposed to do and keep women on Mat leave informed as per their policy, ensuring that this situation doesn't happen to anyone else in the future? Do you want the salary increase that would have come with the role, but you're happy to stay doing what you're doing until a vacancy doing the new role arises and you can apply for it? Do you just want an apology? Do you want someone to lose their job over this/receive additional anti-discrimination training? There are so many possible outcomes, you just need to think about what's most important to you.

Be prepared for a bit of a fight, but go into this knowing that you are in the right and there is a case for them to answer. If you're not in a Union, it might be worth joining one or at least getting in touch with ACAS, as they can help you find someone suitable to come along to meetings with you if you want some extra support, or help you find a decent Employment Law Solicitor (if it comes to that).

Really good luck OPStar, it's disgusting to think that in 2019 a woman can be excluded from progressing in her career because she has given birth to a child in the last 12 months.

lljkk · 21/06/2019 04:59

Part that really confuses me is the job being advertised internally only.

Lots of links online ( eg ) imply that NO job has to be advertised at all, and can still be legally filled. Moreover, that external advertisement is completely unnecessary, too. Internal only would be fine.

I'm confused b/c one of my employers advertises everything externally & insists that not do so would be very illegal, or at least open them up to impossible-to-defend charges of unlawful discrimination. I'm currently having to apply for a job (8m x 20% WTE) that I'm already doing & nobody else will apply for. We still have to go thru the whole process, including scoring of the application & interview questions, etc. My other employer, we have a partner organisation that is doing mass internal only job adverts... but that's b/c they are completely restructuring & everyone's job is abolished below board level: everyone has to apply for new roles in order to have a future job with same employer. The unfilled vacancies will go to external advertisement.

floribunda18 · 21/06/2019 05:36

Some of the responses are rather stupid, and depressing to read.

OP had a right, in law, to be personally informed of a promotion opportunity in her own fucking team which she has now missed out on the opportunity to apply for due to being on maternity leave, something which only affects women. And even asked for them specifically to keep in touch and let her know. She has a claim for sex discrimination, whether or not she chooses to pursue it.

Stop making excuses for her colleagues and stop facilitating the patriarchy.

floribunda18 · 21/06/2019 05:39

Great post, Betsy.

InspirationWontCome · 21/06/2019 06:25

So many nonsense posts!

  1. You 100% should have been informed. They have messed up
  1. As you were on mat leave you should not have been disadvantaged and legally have a 'protected characteristic' and should not be discriminated against
  1. You should write to them formally asking why you were not informed of the vacancy as you should have been while on mat leave
  1. As for what they could do - leave that up to them to come up with solutions. Eg they could create another post and advertise again.

You could raise a formal grievance if they don't take it seriously

MaverickSnoopy · 21/06/2019 06:37

Some odd replies on here. If you wanted to be contacted and you gave them your personal email address then yes they should be emailing you with roles.

When I went on mat leave with my first I was asked if I wanted to be contacted and what my email address was. I was HR for my second mat leave so I left my own notes to be contacted and no systems in place at all for my current mat leave (2 man band) but have been contacted anyway.

No you should not be expected to go into work to access your emails when on mat leave. Suspect they'd argue this was an oversight, as it probably was. What do you want from this? That's your starting point.

Speaking from experience, pick your battles and make sure they're a battle worth taking on.

ivyleaf4 · 21/06/2019 06:58

A couple of posters have mentioned KIT days but I'm really not sure how that's relevant. You get up to ten, how is that going to help in this situation when you're off for a year?

What if you come in for three days in January for a training course, then the following week a job is advertised, by the time you're back for your next KIT days it's April and the closing date is long gone and the job's been filled?

In many workplaces, jobs are sent round by internal email. It would take literally seconds to forward that email to anyone on mat leave. I once worked as a PA to a Director and there was an internal jobs board and it was part of my role to check it and send a screenshot to the people in her team on career break/parental leave once a week (they then contacted me for more details about any role they were interested in). Again, it literally took seconds.

The burden falls on the employer here and it's hardly an unreasonable burden.

TriciaMcMillan · 21/06/2019 06:59

Really surprised at most of these responses.

It is the responsibility of the employer to ensure that an employee is not disadvantaged by being on maternity leave. Internal promotion opportunities (certainly in local government) are likely to be advertised simply by an email to staff. It would be completely reasonable to expect or require that an employee on mat leave was constantly monitoring emails in case such an opportunity arose.

Employers can make 'reasonably contact' to pass on information about pay rises, bonuses and promotion opportunities. They have been taken to tribunal and found against for not doing so.

Disappointing that so many of you think the OP has unreasonable expectations. I hope you're not hiring managers. I am, and would and have treated my staff fairly. OP you deserved better. Speak to your Union, or, if not a member, to someone you know and trust in senior management.