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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should men be allowed to "opt out" of parenthood?

999 replies

Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 09:08

My friend has a child who was ultimately the result of a very casual, friends with benefits type situation. The father was immediately sure that he didn't want a baby and told her from the very beginning. He wasn't around and didn't help out for the first couple of years, but has now decided that he wants to have access to the child and start to build a relationship now he is older.

My friend doesn't trust him, doesn't like him, and is deeply hurt over all the things she has had to go through alone because of his previous lack of involvement and support. But she's worried that she is totally unable to prevent him from ever having access, and feels that he has put her in a horrible and stressful situation.

Which led us to think about this.

When a woman falls pregnant from a one night stand or casual-sex type scenario, she can choose whether to keep the baby, or go through an abortion or out the baby up for adoption. Thus ultimately "opting out" of parenthood.

A man in the same situation has no such right to opt out of parenthood. He has to accept the woman's decision and his life will be impacted by the woman's decision.

My friend believes that she was unrealistic during pregnancy. She firmly believed that the dad would "come round", that he'd see the baby and suddenly fall in love and want to be involved. But of course this didn't happen.

So we started to discuss, what if there was the option for a man to "opt out" of parenthood? It would, of course, have to be done very early on - before the baby was 1 month old, for example. Her idea is that this could be done by signing a legal document stating that he has no desire to be a part of the child's life in any way, will not ever be able to seek any type of access, and will not pay money. This move would have to be irreversible in order to be taken seriously. (Perhaps there could be some terms and conditions like the situation can be reversed but only with the mother's permission).

Now, i know a lot of women on Mumsnet like to say that if a man doesn't want a child then he shouldn't have sex or should use contraception. But I believe in total equality between the sexes and feel that this is unfair. Two people choose to have sex, two people choose whether or not to use contraception, but only one person can decide whether or not they will keep a child if an accident does happen.

I know so many people whose lives are made miserable by constantly battling men for money for their child, or by trying to encourage contact between their child and a man who just isn't interested.

Don't get me wrong - I think this is awful. But wouldn't it save the mother and the child both significant stress and heartache if they can live their lives without these battles? Surely knowing where you stand from the very start will stop all the disappointment and the emotional rollercoaster and stress that so many people experience.

And is it fair for a women to force a child (or the responsibilities that come from having a child, like maintainance) onto a man who knows immediately that he doesn't want a child?

My friend says that with hindsight, she just don't see how this current situation benefits anyone. Men can easily belittle women by claiming that they were "tricked" into having a baby. If there was this "opt out" system, they wouldn't be able to argue this!

The mother also wouldn't have to worry about a deadbeat dad who hasn't done anything for her/her child suddenly popping up deciding they now want to be in the child's life.

My friend says that looking back, although it seems harsh, knowing that this "opt out" system existed would his would actually have helped her. She'd have been much more prepared for single parenthood, much more prepared for being financially responsible for the baby by herself. She'd have been able to prepare better and not have the crushing blows and disappointment and feelings of rejection that come from his behaviour. She'd also not have to now worry about granting a man who is (now) a virtual stranger access to her child.

She thinks that if a man doesn't sign this before baby is month old, then he can't sign it at all, and will be fully responsible for the child in terms is maintainance and anything else, which should then be more strictly implemented (harsher punishments for not paying, for example).

(I thought maybe it would be better if the deadline for opting out was before baby's birth, but she says she still believes that some men will see their child at the birth and fall in love and therefore be given the chance to be involved.)

Of course there would have to be some regulations like if a women can prove that a baby was discussed or planned then the man can't opt out, for example.

What do the rest of you think? I'm really curious about this. On the one hand yes, if you don't want a baby then use contraception. But on the other hand, accidents happen and I can't help but agree with my friend that men should be allowed to opt out just as women can.

At first I thought this was a crazy idea but the more I think about it, the more I think it could help. The UK could issue MUCH stricter punishments to men who don't pay (because if they haven't opted out then they have no right at all, and no excuses, like they make now). It would in many ways protect the mother and child too.

Thoughts, anyone?

(Please don't kill me, I'm just curious to hear ideas from all sides, I'm not fully persuaded! Not that what I think really matters - and it won't happen anyway. But would it be better or worse for people if it did?)

OP posts:
IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 10:47

^Without sperm, there is no pregnancy.
If a man feels strongly that he does not want a baby, he ensures he does not provide the sperm necessary for conception.^

I shall simplify.

With a pill, a coil or an implant, there is no pregnancy. If a woman feels strongly that she doesn’t want a baby, she ensures that she doesn’t provide the physical conditions necessary for conception.

aPengTing · 20/06/2019 10:49

With a pill, a coil or an implant, there is no pregnancy. If a woman feels strongly that she doesn’t want a baby, she ensures that she doesn’t provide the physical conditions necessary for conception

What about those impregnated during an abusive relationship in which contraception was not allowed? Its not uncommon.

Firstimpressionsofearth · 20/06/2019 10:50

I don't really understand this. Men can already opt out of parenthood.

No-one forces a father to see his child. The only thing that is mandatory is that he pays a portion of his income towards the upkeep of the child. Making payments does not make you a parent.

Also in the op original story, even if the father comes on the scene late in the day, surely that's better for the child (assuming he's not abusive) than not having a father or knowing your father "opted out".

NiteFlights · 20/06/2019 10:50

Haven’t read the full thread so apologise if this is repetitive.

The idea that rights should be ‘equal’ in this situation is a red herring, given human biology. There is no way to put both parents on an equal footing.

Society ought to encourage the idea that men have plenty of choice in this situation - the choice to absolutely ensure contraceptive effectiveness or only to have sex with a woman whose potential pregnancy he can cope with. I can’t feel any sympathy for a man who becomes a father when he didn’t want to if he didn’t take proper responsibility for himself not getting into an unwanted situation.

Many pp have rightly pointed out that the important person in all this is the child and I don’t think the child’s right to have parents should be taken away. Once the child is born they take priority.

Your friend’s idea is very understandable in her circumstances but she’s totally wrong.

I really wish more women would let go of the idea that ‘everything should be equal’, which leads to this kind of thinking. In a patriarchy it just plays into men’s hands.

Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 10:51

Not here to argue, just to chat!

You thought a subject like this wouldn't become heated? Come on ..

Thanks, goodbye smile

You don't get to dismiss posters (passive aggressively) from your thread unless they are deemed offensive/inappropriate/whatever by MN.

iggledaisy · 20/06/2019 10:52

Surely this is just legitimising what so many dead beat fathers already do? No one can force you to be involved in a child's life if you don't want to to be and the CMS are notoriously shite when it comes to collecting child maintenance if the man is clever enough to avoid them. This would just be legitimatising in law what some men already do.

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 10:52

What about those impregnated during an abusive relationship in which contraception was not allowed? Its not uncommon.

That’s a terrible situation, obviously. What about those deceived into thinking their trusted female partners were using contraception? It’s not uncommon.

Notreadytogetupyet · 20/06/2019 10:53

Plenty of men already bugger off and don't take responsibility for their kids. The idea seems to be that they should be able to do so without any criticism or guilt. More than that, they should be able to get applause for being brave little equality crusaders. Nah, sorry.

Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 10:54

With a pill, a coil or an implant, there is no pregnancy.

Plenty of people have gotten pregnant while on any of these. It's not common but it happens.

iggledaisy · 20/06/2019 10:54

@Notreadytogetupyet well said 👏🏻👏🏻

HJWT · 20/06/2019 10:55

This is just stupid, if you don't want the stress of an irresponsible man don't be irresponsible and have unprotected sex 🤦🏻‍♀️ otherwise get on with it !!

CJsGoldfish · 20/06/2019 10:55

With a pill, a coil or an implant, there is no pregnancy. If a woman feels strongly that she doesn’t want a baby, she ensures that she doesn’t provide the physical conditions necessary for conception
Sure. No disagreement from me. Don't want a pregnancy, ensure you don't get one Confused

Not that she'd be getting one anyway without a man with no condom Grin

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 10:56

I can’t feel any sympathy for a man who becomes a father when he didn’t want to if he didn’t take proper responsibility for himself not getting into an unwanted situation.^

I can’t feel any sympathy for a woman who makes the choice to become a mother when she didn’t take proper responsibility for herself not not getting into a situation which she could have avoided if she’d wanted - twice. A man has one chance. Women have two.

BrainFart · 20/06/2019 10:56

First post : Am a father of two

I had this exact thought the other day. Though I'd phrased it internally as men not having a "right to choose" (per the "pro-life" / "pro-choice" terminology associated with abortion rights).

Both parents have what I might phrase as the "Level 1" choice of not having sex / not having protected sex.

However, mistakes are made (to err being human, after all) and contraception can be faulty. At this point, women do have the "Level 2" choice of an abortion. I'll leave it to women to recount the physical and emotional difficulties associated with that, as I have no real idea, but a lot of sympathy.

As such, it doesn't appear to me that men have this second level choice and that this is "unfair" (I'm not bitching about it, it's a thought experiment. Life isn't fair and activists on all sides of every argument would do well to remember that and wind their necks in on a lot of issues).

So, that said, I don't think a legal "opt-out", at any stage of pregancy or during childhood, should be introduced as I suspect it wouldn't fix any problem (an unwilling father will be an absent father regardless) and would likely generated unintented consequences (which I am not wise enough to forsee).

iggledaisy · 20/06/2019 10:58

@HJWT people who say this get on my tits. A lot of men who are actively trying for a child, suddenly decide that nah this parenting thing isn't for me and bugger off. Would you say this same thing to those women whose long term partners walk away because they don't fancy the whole parenting thing? 🤔

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 10:58

Plenty of people have gotten pregnant while on any of these. It's not common but it happens

And so have men trying to do the responsible thing and use a condom! They have one chance. If it fails, they have no choice in what happens after. Women do - two chances.

NauseousMum · 20/06/2019 10:59

I don't believe people should be able to opt out at all, be that the way you suggest or buggering off and abandoning their kids. I believe anyone who does should still have to pay and society should take the stance of looking down on these people. It should become something to scorn a person for.

The same goes for those who are controlling and manipulative with their children, refusing or dicking around the other parent with contact time and maintenance. If one parent keeps a child from the other then there should be harsh legal repercussions. Likewise a deadbeat can't just rock up and expect to be facilitated and their should be harsh legal repercussions.

I believe if we were far less tolerant of shits like that, then things would be far better. I also believe abusive people shouldn't get unsupervised contact, if any.

aPengTing · 20/06/2019 11:00

That’s a terrible situation, obviously. What about those deceived into thinking their trusted female partners were using contraception?

That’s not comparable because in your situation the man still has the power to use a condom if he really doesn’t want a baby.

Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 11:00

Slight tangent but, as someone pointed out in another thread; why are people so focused in women fucking around and having contraceptive failures (if they use any) .. a woman having sex with 50 men can only get pregnant and produce a child once every 9 months; a man having sex with 50 women can get 50 women pregnant and produce 50 children perpetually. But somehow the focus is all on women's choices and women's responsibility.

Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 11:01

That’s not comparable because in your situation the man still has the power to use a condom if he really doesn’t want a baby.

And dispose of it himself if he's all that worried.

CheshireChat · 20/06/2019 11:02

But in regards to childbirth and pregnancy, things can't be equal due to biology so whilst men have fewer options beforehand, they also have the massive biological advantage to not be the ones to give birth for example.

Also, things like the male pill were scrapped both because women are unwilling to rely on it, but mostly due to the side effects, you know, the same side effects that women have to put up with but of course that's absolutely fine.

Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 11:02

Just wanted to let you know that I haven't buggered off, just getting ready for work and will reply to these when I get back! Looks like there's been loads more interesting replies, thanks everyone! Looking forward to reading them later! Smile

OP posts:
IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 11:03

That’s not comparable because in your situation the man still has the power to use a condom if he really doesn’t want a baby.

No matter how despicably a woman behaves, it’s still a man’s fault. Would you say the same to a woman tricked into pregnancy? ‘Well, you still had the power to prevent it...’

Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 11:04

he wants to have access to the child and start to build a relationship now he is older.

Now that most of the hard graft is done, you mean.

Notreadytogetupyet · 20/06/2019 11:04

Funny how it's often the same men who lecture women that biology isn't fair, so women just have put up with it, who then have a massive tantrum over one of the few areas where biology might be argued to work to women's benefit (that is, the woman has ultimate control over a pregnancy because it's inside her body).

Angry about men earning more than women? Life isn't fair, sweetheart, women have the babies so they're the once whose earnings are affected. That's just nature.

Annoyed that women get told to change their behaviour to avoid male violence? It's just biology. Men are stronger so it's common sense that women shouldn't go walking round at night.

Women get to choose what to do with a pregnancy because biology means that it's inside their uterus? Waaah, biology is unfair. We need the law to step in to make things exactly "equal" .