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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should men be allowed to "opt out" of parenthood?

999 replies

Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 09:08

My friend has a child who was ultimately the result of a very casual, friends with benefits type situation. The father was immediately sure that he didn't want a baby and told her from the very beginning. He wasn't around and didn't help out for the first couple of years, but has now decided that he wants to have access to the child and start to build a relationship now he is older.

My friend doesn't trust him, doesn't like him, and is deeply hurt over all the things she has had to go through alone because of his previous lack of involvement and support. But she's worried that she is totally unable to prevent him from ever having access, and feels that he has put her in a horrible and stressful situation.

Which led us to think about this.

When a woman falls pregnant from a one night stand or casual-sex type scenario, she can choose whether to keep the baby, or go through an abortion or out the baby up for adoption. Thus ultimately "opting out" of parenthood.

A man in the same situation has no such right to opt out of parenthood. He has to accept the woman's decision and his life will be impacted by the woman's decision.

My friend believes that she was unrealistic during pregnancy. She firmly believed that the dad would "come round", that he'd see the baby and suddenly fall in love and want to be involved. But of course this didn't happen.

So we started to discuss, what if there was the option for a man to "opt out" of parenthood? It would, of course, have to be done very early on - before the baby was 1 month old, for example. Her idea is that this could be done by signing a legal document stating that he has no desire to be a part of the child's life in any way, will not ever be able to seek any type of access, and will not pay money. This move would have to be irreversible in order to be taken seriously. (Perhaps there could be some terms and conditions like the situation can be reversed but only with the mother's permission).

Now, i know a lot of women on Mumsnet like to say that if a man doesn't want a child then he shouldn't have sex or should use contraception. But I believe in total equality between the sexes and feel that this is unfair. Two people choose to have sex, two people choose whether or not to use contraception, but only one person can decide whether or not they will keep a child if an accident does happen.

I know so many people whose lives are made miserable by constantly battling men for money for their child, or by trying to encourage contact between their child and a man who just isn't interested.

Don't get me wrong - I think this is awful. But wouldn't it save the mother and the child both significant stress and heartache if they can live their lives without these battles? Surely knowing where you stand from the very start will stop all the disappointment and the emotional rollercoaster and stress that so many people experience.

And is it fair for a women to force a child (or the responsibilities that come from having a child, like maintainance) onto a man who knows immediately that he doesn't want a child?

My friend says that with hindsight, she just don't see how this current situation benefits anyone. Men can easily belittle women by claiming that they were "tricked" into having a baby. If there was this "opt out" system, they wouldn't be able to argue this!

The mother also wouldn't have to worry about a deadbeat dad who hasn't done anything for her/her child suddenly popping up deciding they now want to be in the child's life.

My friend says that looking back, although it seems harsh, knowing that this "opt out" system existed would his would actually have helped her. She'd have been much more prepared for single parenthood, much more prepared for being financially responsible for the baby by herself. She'd have been able to prepare better and not have the crushing blows and disappointment and feelings of rejection that come from his behaviour. She'd also not have to now worry about granting a man who is (now) a virtual stranger access to her child.

She thinks that if a man doesn't sign this before baby is month old, then he can't sign it at all, and will be fully responsible for the child in terms is maintainance and anything else, which should then be more strictly implemented (harsher punishments for not paying, for example).

(I thought maybe it would be better if the deadline for opting out was before baby's birth, but she says she still believes that some men will see their child at the birth and fall in love and therefore be given the chance to be involved.)

Of course there would have to be some regulations like if a women can prove that a baby was discussed or planned then the man can't opt out, for example.

What do the rest of you think? I'm really curious about this. On the one hand yes, if you don't want a baby then use contraception. But on the other hand, accidents happen and I can't help but agree with my friend that men should be allowed to opt out just as women can.

At first I thought this was a crazy idea but the more I think about it, the more I think it could help. The UK could issue MUCH stricter punishments to men who don't pay (because if they haven't opted out then they have no right at all, and no excuses, like they make now). It would in many ways protect the mother and child too.

Thoughts, anyone?

(Please don't kill me, I'm just curious to hear ideas from all sides, I'm not fully persuaded! Not that what I think really matters - and it won't happen anyway. But would it be better or worse for people if it did?)

OP posts:
Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 19:34

And actually I was referring to the post about all 18 year old men being compelled to have a vasectomy and then only being allowed to father children when 2 drs agree that their frozen sperm can be used

Actually as I mentioned earlier in the thread a temporary gel based vasectomy is looking very promising in testing.

DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 19:48

Actually as I mentioned earlier in the thread a temporary gel based vasectomy is looking very promising in testing.

Big difference between a temporary procedure, reversed whenever the individual decides and a permanent one, where the authorisation to father a child has to be sought from 2 drs don't you think?

Jux · 20/06/2019 19:49

You're really really not comparing like with like. You speak of unfairness to men but it's a bit silly to try to make something equal which is so completely unequal. It's a foolish and wasteful idea.

Jux · 20/06/2019 19:51

Oh, and your friend was right. The dad has come around and now does want a relationship with his child. It's just take a bit longer than she wanted.

NailsNeedDoing · 20/06/2019 20:00

Yes, I completely agree that this should be a thing.

Women want equality, then this is it. They have the right to decide whether or not to terminate a pregnancy because it's about their body, but after birth, its not. Being women should not give them us the right to dictate that someone else is financially responsible as a parent for the best part of the next two decades imo.

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 20:06

Being women should not give them us the right to dictate that someone else is financially responsible as a parent for the best part of the next two decades imo.

They hardly dictate it. Men choose to take the risk of impregnating someone. How is it (the fact he is going to be a parent) suddenly the woman’s responsibility?

53rdWay · 20/06/2019 20:06

Women want equality, then this is it.

Bollocks. Men have been trying to wheedle out of supporting their children for hundreds and hundreds of years. Dressing it up as “ah well THIS time it’s the fault of women for getting abortion made legal!” is fooling nobody.

JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 20/06/2019 20:17

Being women should not give them us the right

You forgot to delete the “them” Grin

bourbonbiccy · 20/06/2019 20:18

suddenly it's the womans' responsibility

Isn't the case being argued that it is both the people's responsibility, but only one has the choice to stop the baby being born ?

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 20:22

Isn't the case being argued that it is both the people's responsibility, but only one has the choice to stop the baby being born ?

But as people are clearly saying, the fact that the other person has more choice does not negate the responsibility of the person with less. It just doesn’t. How would it?

NailsNeedDoing · 20/06/2019 20:27

You forgot to delete the “them”

So I did. Oh well.

Men choose to take the risk of impregnating someone.

And women choose to take the risk of becoming pregnant. If one is allowed to make a mistake and absolve themselves of responsibility, the the other should be allowed to as well. I realise that abortion sometimes comes with trauma and regret for some people, but then signing away your right to be a parent would come with the same for some people. We all have to live with the choices we make.

JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 20/06/2019 20:30

If one is allowed to make a mistake and absolve themselves of responsibility

Having an abortion isn’t “absolving themselves of responsibility”. It’s taking responsibility by making a decision about what the best option is.

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 20:32

And women choose to take the risk of becoming pregnant. If one is allowed to make a mistake and absolve themselves of responsibility, the the other should be allowed to as well.

No. You are applying an arbitrary and fanciful notion of equality where equality does not exist. The woman has the right to terminate a pregnancy because pregnancy and birth represent a serious risk to her health. The man does not take this risk, so he does not have the right. His responsibility for the child is earned at conception.

JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 20/06/2019 20:32

Whereas a man “opting out” is just running away from responsibility.

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 20/06/2019 20:32

BrainFart (good username btw), your reasons for suggesting women are given more status are a bit weak. I'm not too sure that women are given more lenient sentences in like-for-like crimes, but it isn't something that I know enough about.
On the question of custody of children this is an old old complaint from men who want control of kids without actually being prepared to provide the same level of care for them. The court gives custody to the parent who provided most care. Generally that's women.
On the question of MeToo, the 'believe women' message was put out in direct opposition to the general assumption that women who report rape are lying, which is not the case in any other crime. Many of us here can bear witness to the attitude. Whenever it is examined it is generally found to be false.

Does it seem to anyone else that Mumsnet is having an influx of men just lately? Quoting all the old tired crap?

bourbonbiccy · 20/06/2019 20:35

But as people are clearly saying, the fact that the other person has more choice does not negate the responsibility of the person with less. It just doesn’t. How would it?

But if both people involved had a choice, would that not make it equal, rather than just one person having the choice when contraception fails ?

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 20:37

But if both people involved had a choice, would that not make it equal, rather than just one person having the choice when contraception fails?

It’s not equal because pregnancy isn’t equal. I am not pretending it is equal, not suggesting it should be. It shouldn’t. Men should make a decision when they have sex about whether they want to take the risk to become a father. Women should have a right to terminate a pregnancy. The two things aren’t related.

BoneyBackJefferson · 20/06/2019 20:38

I originally thought when I saw the question

NO

But having thought some more I think yes BUT not financially.
If some fuckwit doesn't want to be a half arsed father then fine.

But they should be forced (by whatever means) to pay for the child that they have sired.

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 20:39

But they should be forced (by whatever means) to pay for the child that they have sired.

Which is of course what all this is about. They already have the ability to opt out of parenting; what they want is not to be financially accountable for their choices.

MsTSwift · 20/06/2019 20:43

What a ridiculous thread! It can’t all be scrupulously equal because well biology! And if either sex got the “short straw” when it comes to biology it sure wasn’t men! Have you any experience of what pregnancy and childbirth are like?! And in the majority of cases let’s be honest it’s the women left doing the lions share of practical and emotional labour. I think the op is an 18 year old boy cannot believe any sensible adult with any life experience could think like this.

JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 20/06/2019 20:46

what they want is not to be financially accountable for their choices.

Yes that’s what it all boils down to isn’t it. They just don’t want to have to pay.

bourbonbiccy · 20/06/2019 20:47

It’s not equal because pregnancy isn’t equal. I am not pretending it is equal, not suggesting it should be. It shouldn’t. Men should make a decision when they have sex about whether they want to take the risk to become a father. Women should have a right to terminate a pregnancy. The two things aren’t related

But in this debate, they are related, as the woman ,quite rightly, has the choice to terminate and not have a child in their life.why should a man not have a choice to not have the child in their life ?

Do you think women would be a lot more cautious if the OPs friend suggestion was brought into law?

If women had to make that exact same decision at the point of having sex, and knowing they potentially would be a single parent, do you think they would "keep their knickers up more"

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 20:47

why should a man not have a choice to not have the child in their life

He DOES. His choice can only be prior to conception.

DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 20:48

And if either sex got the “short straw” when it comes to biology it sure wasn’t men! Have you any experience of what pregnancy and childbirth are like?!

I certainly don't think that and I had 2 pregnancies marred by serious complications, and a miscarriage. I'm still grateful that I got to experience it all. I certainly don't think that men have got the better deal.

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 20/06/2019 20:51

MsTSwift, by contrast, I think you are absolutely right. Unfortunately many men do think like that, and their numbers are growing daily.

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