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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should men be allowed to "opt out" of parenthood?

999 replies

Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 09:08

My friend has a child who was ultimately the result of a very casual, friends with benefits type situation. The father was immediately sure that he didn't want a baby and told her from the very beginning. He wasn't around and didn't help out for the first couple of years, but has now decided that he wants to have access to the child and start to build a relationship now he is older.

My friend doesn't trust him, doesn't like him, and is deeply hurt over all the things she has had to go through alone because of his previous lack of involvement and support. But she's worried that she is totally unable to prevent him from ever having access, and feels that he has put her in a horrible and stressful situation.

Which led us to think about this.

When a woman falls pregnant from a one night stand or casual-sex type scenario, she can choose whether to keep the baby, or go through an abortion or out the baby up for adoption. Thus ultimately "opting out" of parenthood.

A man in the same situation has no such right to opt out of parenthood. He has to accept the woman's decision and his life will be impacted by the woman's decision.

My friend believes that she was unrealistic during pregnancy. She firmly believed that the dad would "come round", that he'd see the baby and suddenly fall in love and want to be involved. But of course this didn't happen.

So we started to discuss, what if there was the option for a man to "opt out" of parenthood? It would, of course, have to be done very early on - before the baby was 1 month old, for example. Her idea is that this could be done by signing a legal document stating that he has no desire to be a part of the child's life in any way, will not ever be able to seek any type of access, and will not pay money. This move would have to be irreversible in order to be taken seriously. (Perhaps there could be some terms and conditions like the situation can be reversed but only with the mother's permission).

Now, i know a lot of women on Mumsnet like to say that if a man doesn't want a child then he shouldn't have sex or should use contraception. But I believe in total equality between the sexes and feel that this is unfair. Two people choose to have sex, two people choose whether or not to use contraception, but only one person can decide whether or not they will keep a child if an accident does happen.

I know so many people whose lives are made miserable by constantly battling men for money for their child, or by trying to encourage contact between their child and a man who just isn't interested.

Don't get me wrong - I think this is awful. But wouldn't it save the mother and the child both significant stress and heartache if they can live their lives without these battles? Surely knowing where you stand from the very start will stop all the disappointment and the emotional rollercoaster and stress that so many people experience.

And is it fair for a women to force a child (or the responsibilities that come from having a child, like maintainance) onto a man who knows immediately that he doesn't want a child?

My friend says that with hindsight, she just don't see how this current situation benefits anyone. Men can easily belittle women by claiming that they were "tricked" into having a baby. If there was this "opt out" system, they wouldn't be able to argue this!

The mother also wouldn't have to worry about a deadbeat dad who hasn't done anything for her/her child suddenly popping up deciding they now want to be in the child's life.

My friend says that looking back, although it seems harsh, knowing that this "opt out" system existed would his would actually have helped her. She'd have been much more prepared for single parenthood, much more prepared for being financially responsible for the baby by herself. She'd have been able to prepare better and not have the crushing blows and disappointment and feelings of rejection that come from his behaviour. She'd also not have to now worry about granting a man who is (now) a virtual stranger access to her child.

She thinks that if a man doesn't sign this before baby is month old, then he can't sign it at all, and will be fully responsible for the child in terms is maintainance and anything else, which should then be more strictly implemented (harsher punishments for not paying, for example).

(I thought maybe it would be better if the deadline for opting out was before baby's birth, but she says she still believes that some men will see their child at the birth and fall in love and therefore be given the chance to be involved.)

Of course there would have to be some regulations like if a women can prove that a baby was discussed or planned then the man can't opt out, for example.

What do the rest of you think? I'm really curious about this. On the one hand yes, if you don't want a baby then use contraception. But on the other hand, accidents happen and I can't help but agree with my friend that men should be allowed to opt out just as women can.

At first I thought this was a crazy idea but the more I think about it, the more I think it could help. The UK could issue MUCH stricter punishments to men who don't pay (because if they haven't opted out then they have no right at all, and no excuses, like they make now). It would in many ways protect the mother and child too.

Thoughts, anyone?

(Please don't kill me, I'm just curious to hear ideas from all sides, I'm not fully persuaded! Not that what I think really matters - and it won't happen anyway. But would it be better or worse for people if it did?)

OP posts:
Ringdonna · 20/06/2019 18:12

The onus on contraception is on both parties in my opinion, not just the man or woman.

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 18:14

Are you applying that to women too? If you create a life it's your problem to solve?

Of course. I can solve my problem by having an abortion.

Man can solve his problem by wearing a condom or abstaining if the risk is too great.

Not tricky.

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 20/06/2019 18:20

But seeing as the march in society seems to be towards demanding some sort of equal-but-superior/protected status for women by noisier activists

In what way are women given an equal but superior status exactly?

BrainFart · 20/06/2019 18:29

Women can walk away. Putting the baby up for adoption, for example. But they don't have to keep paying for the baby after putting it up for adoption (to my knowledge).

itsbetterthanabox · 20/06/2019 18:33

How do men not have an 'opt out' already? You said this bloke hasn't been involved for years. He already opted out.
I don't think this benefits children at all that men can be given even more of a chance to fuck off and more children living in poverty.

BrainFart · 20/06/2019 18:33

@DarkAtEndOfTunnel

Off the top of my head, and without research, I would expect that :

  • prison sentences are noticeably more lenient for women ;
  • women receive more favourable treatment in custody agreements in the cases where the Dad is not a deadbeat.
DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 18:34

Yep. I can solve MY problem by either having a baby, or having an abortion. You can’t. That does not make your problem my problem.

Oh of course, back to the old tosh of anyone not agreeing with you must be a man

You could not be more wrong.

And actually I was referring to the post about all 18 year old men being compelled to have a vasectomy and then only being allowed to father children when 2 drs agree that their frozen sperm can be used. I was asking if the same applies to women?

So nothing to do with abortions and everything to do with not being allowed to be a parent until 2 doctors judge you to be fit enough to be a parent. Why should that only apply to men?

hsegfiugseskufh · 20/06/2019 18:37

I think they should be able to.

Women can opt out, i do think men should have that option to. (Not to be able to force abortion but to walk away)

I dont think they should be allowed to walk back into the childs life at random though.

53rdWay · 20/06/2019 18:42

But they don't have to keep paying for the baby after putting it up for adoption (to my knowledge).

No, this is not how it works. You cannot as a rule unilaterally decide to put your children up for adoption, if the other parent wants to parent them.

I could walk away from my children tomorrow, legally. But I would not be able to have them adopted, because they have a father. I would owe child support payments to him.

hsegfiugseskufh · 20/06/2019 18:44

53rd what if they dont tell the dad about the baby? Dont put him in the BC?

And they can still abort without his consent.

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 18:44

DecomposingComposers

It shouldn’t apply to anybody. We don’t need to be controlled by doctors when we can control ourselves.

Redroses17 · 20/06/2019 18:46

@itsbetterthanabox well said , there is still a gap between men and women's equality within society now days ,in terms of parent hood in regards to men and women, people are more expecting of mothers than fathers ,allowing men to opt out of parent good isn't making the gap of equality for men and women any smaller

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 18:47

And they can still abort without his consent

And thank goodness a woman doesn’t need a man’s “consent” to abort Confused

DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 18:49

It shouldn’t apply to anybody. We don’t need to be controlled by doctors when we can control ourselves.

I agree, so how come I was the only poster who disagrees with that post then?

Likethebattle · 20/06/2019 18:55

Both parents had sex and therefore w are responsible for a child who is a result of that. Cordons are extremely effective when used correctly and for extra surety he can withdraw as well as using a condom. This would cut the chances of an unwanted pregnancy massively. If men play the game and take a risk then they accept pregnancy is a possible outcome!!

BrainFart · 20/06/2019 18:55

@53rdWay

I was only thinking in the case where a father would have theoretically opted out and the woman subsequently also wished to opt out. Thank you for making a fuller point.

hsegfiugseskufh · 20/06/2019 18:55

jaques i completely agree i was just stating a fact!

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 18:56

DecomposingComposers

I am not a mind reader, but I suspect it was an analogous and equally bonkers proposal to that of the OP, showing how the thinking can be reversed?

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 18:56

JoanMavisIcecreamGirl

My apologies Smile I completely missed the tone of your post! In that case, yep, you’re absolutely right

Seniorschoolmum · 20/06/2019 19:00

Perhaps the best way to answer this is to consider how many children don’t want to know their dads.

Pregnancies happen. Contraception fails, some women can’t face abortions, shit happens. And once it happens, the needs of the child come first because they certainly didn’t have any say in whether sex took place or contraception worked.

hsegfiugseskufh · 20/06/2019 19:01

As someone who has a shit dad, i think i would have been better off if i hadnt met him at all. He probably would too tbh.

BrainFart · 20/06/2019 19:04

@DarkAtEndOfTunnel

another one :

at the height of #metoo, the idea of "believe women" was floated, which appeared to wish to suspend the idea of due process and balance of evidence, which as a man is not a right I'd be delighted to give up (another potential reason for abstinence, although I suspect the choice of the local women around me not to throw themselves at me might be playing a part Blush)

DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 19:10

Here is the post Hercule.

I would not support this but i would support a nationwide scheme rolled out to all males over 18 where they get a free vasectomy and free sperm storage for the rest of their lives which they can then access when two different doctors have agreed that the man in question is emotionally and physically ready to be a father.

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 19:12

I would not support this but i would support a nationwide scheme rolled out to all males over 18 where they get a free vasectomy and free sperm storage for the rest of their lives which they can then access when two different doctors have agreed that the man in question is emotionally and physically ready to be a father.

Again, I can’t comment on why that person thinks what they think. I can only continue to state what I think.

DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 19:29

Aah. Of course.

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