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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should men be allowed to "opt out" of parenthood?

999 replies

Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 09:08

My friend has a child who was ultimately the result of a very casual, friends with benefits type situation. The father was immediately sure that he didn't want a baby and told her from the very beginning. He wasn't around and didn't help out for the first couple of years, but has now decided that he wants to have access to the child and start to build a relationship now he is older.

My friend doesn't trust him, doesn't like him, and is deeply hurt over all the things she has had to go through alone because of his previous lack of involvement and support. But she's worried that she is totally unable to prevent him from ever having access, and feels that he has put her in a horrible and stressful situation.

Which led us to think about this.

When a woman falls pregnant from a one night stand or casual-sex type scenario, she can choose whether to keep the baby, or go through an abortion or out the baby up for adoption. Thus ultimately "opting out" of parenthood.

A man in the same situation has no such right to opt out of parenthood. He has to accept the woman's decision and his life will be impacted by the woman's decision.

My friend believes that she was unrealistic during pregnancy. She firmly believed that the dad would "come round", that he'd see the baby and suddenly fall in love and want to be involved. But of course this didn't happen.

So we started to discuss, what if there was the option for a man to "opt out" of parenthood? It would, of course, have to be done very early on - before the baby was 1 month old, for example. Her idea is that this could be done by signing a legal document stating that he has no desire to be a part of the child's life in any way, will not ever be able to seek any type of access, and will not pay money. This move would have to be irreversible in order to be taken seriously. (Perhaps there could be some terms and conditions like the situation can be reversed but only with the mother's permission).

Now, i know a lot of women on Mumsnet like to say that if a man doesn't want a child then he shouldn't have sex or should use contraception. But I believe in total equality between the sexes and feel that this is unfair. Two people choose to have sex, two people choose whether or not to use contraception, but only one person can decide whether or not they will keep a child if an accident does happen.

I know so many people whose lives are made miserable by constantly battling men for money for their child, or by trying to encourage contact between their child and a man who just isn't interested.

Don't get me wrong - I think this is awful. But wouldn't it save the mother and the child both significant stress and heartache if they can live their lives without these battles? Surely knowing where you stand from the very start will stop all the disappointment and the emotional rollercoaster and stress that so many people experience.

And is it fair for a women to force a child (or the responsibilities that come from having a child, like maintainance) onto a man who knows immediately that he doesn't want a child?

My friend says that with hindsight, she just don't see how this current situation benefits anyone. Men can easily belittle women by claiming that they were "tricked" into having a baby. If there was this "opt out" system, they wouldn't be able to argue this!

The mother also wouldn't have to worry about a deadbeat dad who hasn't done anything for her/her child suddenly popping up deciding they now want to be in the child's life.

My friend says that looking back, although it seems harsh, knowing that this "opt out" system existed would his would actually have helped her. She'd have been much more prepared for single parenthood, much more prepared for being financially responsible for the baby by herself. She'd have been able to prepare better and not have the crushing blows and disappointment and feelings of rejection that come from his behaviour. She'd also not have to now worry about granting a man who is (now) a virtual stranger access to her child.

She thinks that if a man doesn't sign this before baby is month old, then he can't sign it at all, and will be fully responsible for the child in terms is maintainance and anything else, which should then be more strictly implemented (harsher punishments for not paying, for example).

(I thought maybe it would be better if the deadline for opting out was before baby's birth, but she says she still believes that some men will see their child at the birth and fall in love and therefore be given the chance to be involved.)

Of course there would have to be some regulations like if a women can prove that a baby was discussed or planned then the man can't opt out, for example.

What do the rest of you think? I'm really curious about this. On the one hand yes, if you don't want a baby then use contraception. But on the other hand, accidents happen and I can't help but agree with my friend that men should be allowed to opt out just as women can.

At first I thought this was a crazy idea but the more I think about it, the more I think it could help. The UK could issue MUCH stricter punishments to men who don't pay (because if they haven't opted out then they have no right at all, and no excuses, like they make now). It would in many ways protect the mother and child too.

Thoughts, anyone?

(Please don't kill me, I'm just curious to hear ideas from all sides, I'm not fully persuaded! Not that what I think really matters - and it won't happen anyway. But would it be better or worse for people if it did?)

OP posts:
LemonGingerCakes · 20/06/2019 12:52

You did see my post about having had a discussion with him regarding what would happen in the unlikely event of a pregnancy?

And yet if you changed your mind after the event, you’d argue that it was your right 🙄

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 12:53

IsabellaLinton

There is nothing “normal” about these views, Isabella. They are extreme. They are damaging. They are foolish beyond imagining. All that would result from them is more pain for women and children. And since too many women and children are already bearing the brunt of the shit decision making of feckless men who CBA to put a condom on it, you will forgive me if not only do not offer your views my support, but tell you I think I have never read anything so stupid in all my born days.

DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 12:54

In the situation that a woman doesn't want to co parent with a stranger she has the choice to not become a parent then, surely?

Well you'd think so wouldn't you? But according to the OP this is the situation her friend finds herself in and now doesn't want the dad to be involved as he is a "stranger".

Given that most posters are saying that the potential for a pregnancy should always be considered before sex, why did the mother not think about how she would co parent with a stranger should pregnancy occur, before deciding to have sex with a stranger?

BishopBrennansArse · 20/06/2019 12:54

My point is both parties have responsibility for their actions and if they choose to be irresponsible and consequences occur then they both live with those consequences. That should never give men rights over a woman's body, though.

CaptSkippy · 20/06/2019 12:55

I have zero sympathy for men who complain about unwanted children after they stuck their dicks where they didn't belong. Mistakes happen, but they carry consequences for everyone.

Even with abortion women don't just get to walk away from a pregnancy. An abortion is not a pleasant or easy procedure. It is a medical procedure carried out under general anesthetics. Plus you have to deal with the sudden change in hormones after that (and perhaps morning sickness before) and because of the stigma, many women feel guilty afterwards too. It can also be a costly procedure, depending on where you live.

These are all things a man will never have to deal with.

So, I'll keep repeating this till every misogynist idiot will get it through his (or her) thick skull: Don't want kids? Don't get (anyone) pregnant then.

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 12:55

And yet if you changed your mind after the event, you’d argue that it was your right

How do you mean “changed my mind”. He acknowledges fully that if I was pregnant it can only be my choice to continue. We had this discussion before we slept together for the first time.

At any time if he decides that a pregnancy would be a disaster he can of course change his mind and we decide whether to stop having sex, do other stuff or continue to take the minute risk.

BishopBrennansArse · 20/06/2019 12:55

Both parties should consider those consequences.

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 12:56

We see a lot of woe-is-men moaning, but why aren't more of them clamouring for the male contraceptive pill?

Wasn’t the last trial of male pill abandoned because they couldn’t cope with the side effects?!

BishopBrennansArse · 20/06/2019 12:57

Diddums. Women have only had to endure side effects for 50 years, after all.

DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 12:58

If - for a man - a pregnancy would be a disaster that couldn’t be countenanced, he has options. If he doesn’t want to take those options he has to accept that sex could result in baby.

What options? Considering you posted my response about PPs suggesting men have blow jobs or anal sex, are those the options that you think men have? Only those options don't sound that great for women tbh.

So if men don't want kids they

  • don't have sex - how many wives and girlfriends would be happy with this?
  • use condoms - not 100% effective
  • have blow jobs or anal sex - how many wives and girlfriends would be happy with that?
BiBabbles · 20/06/2019 12:59

If men don't consider those options reliable enough maybe they should push for more to be created?

There have been pushes for long-term male birth control for many years, but getting from concept through animal testing to human testing to available takes a lot of time and funds. The one that I believe is the farthest along, Vasalgel, has been in the works since 2010 and is at latest reports is still a long way from being on the market as an option.

BishopBrennansArse · 20/06/2019 12:59

Or they get behind additional forms of contraception for men?

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 13:00

What options?

You could add vasectomy to that although I would absolutely support any man to choose not to have a surgical procedure.

The thing is, if none of the options are palatable, then they acknowledge the risk and have sex. If a pregnancy occurs it can hardly be a surprise though!

MissB83 · 20/06/2019 13:00

Your logic is fallacious. You aren't comparing like with like.

Women can opt out of a pregnancy (before or after conception) and there is no child who requires 18+ years of parenting and support.

Men can opt out of a pregnancy (before conception) by using contraception.

If the child is already born then the moral and legal issues aren't the same. It is morally reprehensible to encourage a system where men can "opt out" of dealing with a living child and putting all the responsibility onto their other parent.

And I say that even as a single parent who would prefer it if I didn't have to deal with the idiot that is my child's father!

NameChangedNoImagination · 20/06/2019 13:00

YABU.
Shit idea.

DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 13:01

Wasn’t the last trial of male pill abandoned because they couldn’t cope with the side effects?!

I thought it was because it wasn't effective? Do you have the study about the side effects?

They are developing a temporary vasectomy that appears to be very promising so hopefully that will be available soon for men who want it.

CJsGoldfish · 20/06/2019 13:01

I can't get over how some apparent feminists on here are saying that the way for men to avoid becoming fathers is to have a blow job or have anal sex!!
Perfectly valid options if he doesn't want to wear a condom yet doesn't want a baby. Not seeing the problem

Bluestitch · 20/06/2019 13:04

Doesn't sound like a great option for the woman involved, can't say I'd particularly like to be penetrated in the anus let alone unprotected.

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 13:04

@herculepoirot2

Ah, see what happens if you try to explain anything to the ideologically possessed! Only one way it ever goes - straight to insults! So predictable and boring! Grin

Ah well, two can play at that game.
I’m sure will forgive me if not only tell you your views are absolute anathema to me and will never have my support, but tell you I have never read anything so stupid, hypocritical, selfish, unjust, cruel and self-interested in all my born days.

Grin
DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 13:04

The thing is, if none of the options are palatable, then they acknowledge the risk and have sex. If a pregnancy occurs it can hardly be a surprise though!

But who are the options unpalatable for?

Abstinence? Yeah possibly not palatable for the man but how many wives or girlfriends would put up with it too?

Anal sex or blow job (as proposed by other posters) - maybe men would be happy with this but their partners?

So, who are these options unpalatable for? I reckon at least, if not more, women would find these unpalatable than men.

BishopBrennansArse · 20/06/2019 13:04

Well there's a snopes link

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 13:05

Decomposing no link to a study, it was just something I remembered.

Some discussion on the study from 2016 in the New Scientist:-

www.newscientist.com/article/2110729-male-contraceptive-injection-works-but-side-effects-halt-trial/amp/

DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 13:06

Perfectly valid options if he doesn't want to wear a condom yet doesn't want a baby. Not seeing the problem

Really? Blow jobs and anal are perfectly valid options? What about the woman in all of this? What does she get out of it?

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 13:06

IsabellaLinton

I did not insult you, but your ideas. How about don’t start debates if you can’t take criticism?

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 13:06

So, who are these options unpalatable for? I reckon at least, if not more, women would find these unpalatable than men

Kind of my point.

Although of course if you’re not compatible with your attitudes to sex, then it’s acceptable for either party to end the relationship.

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