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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should men be allowed to "opt out" of parenthood?

999 replies

Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 09:08

My friend has a child who was ultimately the result of a very casual, friends with benefits type situation. The father was immediately sure that he didn't want a baby and told her from the very beginning. He wasn't around and didn't help out for the first couple of years, but has now decided that he wants to have access to the child and start to build a relationship now he is older.

My friend doesn't trust him, doesn't like him, and is deeply hurt over all the things she has had to go through alone because of his previous lack of involvement and support. But she's worried that she is totally unable to prevent him from ever having access, and feels that he has put her in a horrible and stressful situation.

Which led us to think about this.

When a woman falls pregnant from a one night stand or casual-sex type scenario, she can choose whether to keep the baby, or go through an abortion or out the baby up for adoption. Thus ultimately "opting out" of parenthood.

A man in the same situation has no such right to opt out of parenthood. He has to accept the woman's decision and his life will be impacted by the woman's decision.

My friend believes that she was unrealistic during pregnancy. She firmly believed that the dad would "come round", that he'd see the baby and suddenly fall in love and want to be involved. But of course this didn't happen.

So we started to discuss, what if there was the option for a man to "opt out" of parenthood? It would, of course, have to be done very early on - before the baby was 1 month old, for example. Her idea is that this could be done by signing a legal document stating that he has no desire to be a part of the child's life in any way, will not ever be able to seek any type of access, and will not pay money. This move would have to be irreversible in order to be taken seriously. (Perhaps there could be some terms and conditions like the situation can be reversed but only with the mother's permission).

Now, i know a lot of women on Mumsnet like to say that if a man doesn't want a child then he shouldn't have sex or should use contraception. But I believe in total equality between the sexes and feel that this is unfair. Two people choose to have sex, two people choose whether or not to use contraception, but only one person can decide whether or not they will keep a child if an accident does happen.

I know so many people whose lives are made miserable by constantly battling men for money for their child, or by trying to encourage contact between their child and a man who just isn't interested.

Don't get me wrong - I think this is awful. But wouldn't it save the mother and the child both significant stress and heartache if they can live their lives without these battles? Surely knowing where you stand from the very start will stop all the disappointment and the emotional rollercoaster and stress that so many people experience.

And is it fair for a women to force a child (or the responsibilities that come from having a child, like maintainance) onto a man who knows immediately that he doesn't want a child?

My friend says that with hindsight, she just don't see how this current situation benefits anyone. Men can easily belittle women by claiming that they were "tricked" into having a baby. If there was this "opt out" system, they wouldn't be able to argue this!

The mother also wouldn't have to worry about a deadbeat dad who hasn't done anything for her/her child suddenly popping up deciding they now want to be in the child's life.

My friend says that looking back, although it seems harsh, knowing that this "opt out" system existed would his would actually have helped her. She'd have been much more prepared for single parenthood, much more prepared for being financially responsible for the baby by herself. She'd have been able to prepare better and not have the crushing blows and disappointment and feelings of rejection that come from his behaviour. She'd also not have to now worry about granting a man who is (now) a virtual stranger access to her child.

She thinks that if a man doesn't sign this before baby is month old, then he can't sign it at all, and will be fully responsible for the child in terms is maintainance and anything else, which should then be more strictly implemented (harsher punishments for not paying, for example).

(I thought maybe it would be better if the deadline for opting out was before baby's birth, but she says she still believes that some men will see their child at the birth and fall in love and therefore be given the chance to be involved.)

Of course there would have to be some regulations like if a women can prove that a baby was discussed or planned then the man can't opt out, for example.

What do the rest of you think? I'm really curious about this. On the one hand yes, if you don't want a baby then use contraception. But on the other hand, accidents happen and I can't help but agree with my friend that men should be allowed to opt out just as women can.

At first I thought this was a crazy idea but the more I think about it, the more I think it could help. The UK could issue MUCH stricter punishments to men who don't pay (because if they haven't opted out then they have no right at all, and no excuses, like they make now). It would in many ways protect the mother and child too.

Thoughts, anyone?

(Please don't kill me, I'm just curious to hear ideas from all sides, I'm not fully persuaded! Not that what I think really matters - and it won't happen anyway. But would it be better or worse for people if it did?)

OP posts:
LemonGingerCakes · 20/06/2019 12:38

Well given you don’t appear to understand what intelligence means....

Aw... sweet little insult 🤗

PottyPotterer · 20/06/2019 12:38

Well men can and do opt out all the time. They can opt out of caring responsibilities with no repercussions and they can opt out of supporting their DC with no repercussions. There may be laws in place for non payment of child support but they are very very rarely used. No point in any further laws until existing ones are utilized.

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 12:38

@JacquesHammer

C’mon Jacques, insult me some more because I dare to disagree with you, I love it! Have a proper go!

GrinWink

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 12:38

I don’t know, ask Jacques. She can fuck around all she likes dontchaknow?

Oh we do a lot of PIV. Mainly because he’s not a fucking idiot and he understands that sex can equal pregnancy.

pikapikachu · 20/06/2019 12:40

An opt-out wouldn't always lead to a mum being left alone if the Dad changes his mind.

If the opt-out thing was implemented then there would probably be a change in the rights that grandparents, aunts and uncles have and the Dad could see the child when grandparents had visitation anyway.

1 month post baby is a tiring time and I suspect that it would be easy to argue that Dad wasn't in the right mind when he signed. (Sleep deprivation is after al used to torture people)

Say a Dad regretted his decision and approached the child or the mum in public. In these situations I can't see the budget-stretched police getting involved. Nobody will accept people being imprisoned for trying to see their family are they?

DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 12:40

Eggs cause pregnancy!
No they don't.

Can you get pregnant without an egg then?

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 12:40

Thanks Lemon! Are we the only ones here not enslaved to a man-hating ideology? It appears so!

I don’t hate men, Isabella. My husband is a wonderful man, who is profoundly unlikely to impregnant someone unintentionally. If he did, he would be a parent. He does not need a gang of handmaidens standing up for his “rights”, as he already has the right to do what he wants with his penis. That’s his moment of decision making, and he knows that.

Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 12:41

Ah the female (?) misogynists are bonding, how lovely.

Lemon you missed my point completely- I've never said women have no choice. You argued men have choice, but they do - they have exactly the same choice as women.

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 12:42

herculepoirot2

Great post. I have an ex-husband, a male best friend, a BIl, a father who are all wonderful men.

They also all know how to take responsibility for themselves.

Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 12:42

*you argued men have no choice.

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 12:42

Oh we do a lot of PIV. Mainly because he’s not a fucking idiot and he understands that sex can equal pregnancy.

And if a pregnancy does occur, Jacques is firmly in the driving seat, clutching her sheaf of cards, deciding which one to deal him....

pikapikachu · 20/06/2019 12:42

Would a Dad who signed an opt -out be banned from reconciling with the child's mother? If not then I can see a lot of men signing the document,keeping their money for themselves but continuing to live with the mum.

Nonnymum · 20/06/2019 12:43

You are not comparing like with like. Women are not opting out they are deciding what happens to their bodies. Opting out of parenthood after the baby is born is not the same at all, and I don't see how getting a man to sign a form opting out is going to solve anything. Also how would a child feel if he tries to find his father when he is an adult.
This idea just feels wrong and a return to past times when an unplanned baby was always the fault of the mother and she alone had to take responsibility for it leaving men to sleep around as they want taking no responsibility.

Weebitawks · 20/06/2019 12:44

Now, i know a lot of women on Mumsnet like to say that if a man doesn't want a child then he shouldn't have sex or should use contraception. But I believe in total equality between the sexes and feel that this is unfair. Two people choose to have sex, two people choose whether or not to use contraception, but only one person can decide whether or not they will keep a child if an accident does happen.

This is completely flawed. Especially for this situation. They both entered into a sexual relationship knowing the consequence. It’s not more unfair for the man as woman such as your friend have understood the consequences fully and will look after the child.

A man who isn’t prepared to look after a child he fathers, should ask the woman prior to having sex with her what she would do if she falls pregnant. He can’t just assume she’ll have an abortion. That’s where the argument crumbles against equal rights.

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 12:45

And if a pregnancy does occur, Jacques is firmly in the driving seat, clutching her sheaf of cards, deciding which one to deal him

You did see my post about having had a discussion with him regarding what would happen in the unlikely event of a pregnancy?

DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 12:46

Everyone seems to be ignoring that the OP is calling for a way for mothers to force men not to be fathers.

In this case the mother doesn't want to co parent with a stranger.

Do why didn't she think about the potential consequences before choosing to have sex with a stranger?

BishopBrennansArse · 20/06/2019 12:48

A man has options. Contraceptive options. If he doesn't want to deal with a pregnancy then he uses those options.

If men don't consider those options reliable enough maybe they should push for more to be created?

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 12:49

@herculepoirot2

I don’t hate men, either, although I get the impression that some do when they talk condescendingly about the ‘menz’. Would that sort of dismissive attitude be tolerated by women if it came from men? I can’t stand the hypocrisy and the double standards. I’m not a ‘handmaiden’ standing up for men, I’m not a MRA, nor am I a feminist. I don’t need a label for my beliefs or values. I’m a normal human being, not a slave to any ideology.

DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 12:49

I can't get over how some apparent feminists on here are saying that the way for men to avoid becoming fathers is to have a blow job or have anal sex!! Yeah, that sounds great for women everywhere.

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 12:49

If men don't consider those options reliable enough maybe they should push for more to be created?

Quite. It’s funny how that’s never a consideration!

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 12:49

And I mean, fucking hell. Imagine the spike in STIs.

Blush
BishopBrennansArse · 20/06/2019 12:50

In the situation that a woman doesn't want to co parent with a stranger she has the choice to not become a parent then, surely?

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 12:50

I can't get over how some apparent feminists on here are saying that the way for men to avoid becoming fathers is to have a blow job or have anal sex!! Yeah, that sounds great for women everywhere

If - for a man - a pregnancy would be a disaster that couldn’t be countenanced, he has options. If he doesn’t want to take those options he has to accept that sex could result in baby.

BiBabbles · 20/06/2019 12:52

I don't know. As others say, nature isn't even in this regard and the laws and society need to reflect that. In trying to include all the complexities for either sex or for the child brings up a lot of issues, many of which have already been brought up but on this topic, one always comes to my mind.

While thankfully I can't find a case of it in the UK, there are several American cases where a woman raped a boy, became pregnant, and was then able to sue for child support and have it granted even when the criminal act is not in question. I think in those and similar cases that those boys should be able to opt out. I think the system as it is has failed those boys. I think the system as it is is failing a lot of people, but I've found much of the attitude to those boys in many of the articles on them heartbreaking.

Abandonment does cause issues - I was abandoned by my mother, but before that, I had years of her financially and otherwise supporting me and knowing damn well she didn't want to, that she viewed me as a burden especially financially, and I honestly cannot say that abandonment was worse. I just can't and having spent quite a bit of time with other people like me who were abandoned at an older age, it seems, either way, being an unwanted kid is a mind fuck. But then, having two parents, even well off ones, doesn't mean they'll financially support the child well or that that or other parental responsibilities aren't shifted onto someone else - it's hard to guarantee any rights for children as things are.

I don't think there is a consequence-free option and it's debatable if there should be even when it feels like some parents are able to opt out even without any formal system acknowledging it, but part of me hopes people can come with something better than what has been so far and going on now. Whether or not that includes an opt-out, I'm not sure.

ReganSomerset · 20/06/2019 12:52

If men don't consider those options reliable enough maybe they should push for more to be created?

Bloody good point. We see a lot of woe-is-men moaning, but why aren't more of them clamouring for the male contraceptive pill?

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