To think men that don't pay child support should be arrested?

[HappyLoneParentDay]

Ok I'm not wanting a massive row. Just often thought (after yet another fruitless call to CMS and being told for the 137th time that after 3 years & yet another 'job-hopping' instance that I "have to give him a chance to pay") that despite the CMS being able to take them to Court etc, they very rarely do. Even multiple CMS supervisors have told me on a number of occasions that it's very, very rare that they actually take someone to Court.

Yet in the US, non payment of child support after 6 months, is a criminal offence. Resulting in an arrest warrant being issued.

AIBU to think there's no reason we can't do this?

FYI: He now pays child support on time every month and has done for a while. It is just something I've never been able to understand...

It's not just men though is it? If we want change it should be parents regardless of gender

If the powers that the CMS have at their disposal are applied it would apply to all NRPs.

In terms of stats though, how much of the billion pound backlog is owed by women? I would hazard a guess at that figure being vanishingly small.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

Never thought of it like that but, you’re right

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss that s all well and good until you have a scenario where as a couple you both have adequate jobs, have kids and then he walls off leaving you with 2 under 2. Suddenly your job which was manageable when you have the second parent to help cover the non 8-6 m-f hours. Then you are battling for months to get child support from said ex.

A single resident parent needing the states' help is not the same as a cockwomble pulling these stunts to actively avoid supporting their child.

@SkinnyPete I kind of agree with you. As a man if you aren't married to or cohabiting with the mother you have 12 weeks from being notified of the pregnancy to formally issue a legal notice relinquishing your parental rights.

Once you've done it that's it. You don't have to pay maintenance but you don't have any type of right to see the child or interfere in their life. You have sperm donored yourself.

Everyone else has to pay up in a system similar to the US. No excuses.

*becomes unmanagable

@Icecreamandcandyfloss

The mother you describe is caring for her children. Anyway there would be far less women in that situation if the fathers either paid up or shared care so they could work.

@SkinnyPete if you’re a high earner you must see that you have choices other people don’t - and one of those is it not mattering as much if your XW doesn’t pay maintenance - you can still feed yourself and pay for childcare and you’re not awake at 3.30 worrying about the gas bill.

@GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit precisely. If my ex maintained our routine in terms of how our shifts would be opposite and continue working together as we did when we were together, I would still be in my job.

It's amazing how many men claim their children were unplanned AFTER they split from the child's mother, yet while the couple were together no such thing was claimed!

Exactly this!

When my ex’s new gf/wife said that I had tried to trap him, because that’s what he told her, I laughed my head off before getting furious. 4 years it took to have our girls - trying, doctors appointments, tests, tears worrying it might never happen and then, for me, a hormonal rollercoaster with medication. Then of course there’s the fact that I “take” a ridiculous amount of his money “for myself”.

Only nine that he’s doing the same to her she finally believes me.

If you have sex you might end up being a parent. End of.

@lyralalala that's why my imagined proposal was 12 weeks to put up or shut up. No more excuses.

There is an interesting chat on the feminism board about surrogacy and what makes you a parent. Genetic material, growing and birthing a child, caring for and supporting that child.

"As a man if you aren't married to or cohabiting with the mother you have 12 weeks from being notified of the pregnancy to formally issue a legal notice relinquishing your parental rights.

Once you've done it that's it. You don't have to pay maintenance but you don't have any type of right to see the child or interfere in their life. You have sperm donored yourself."

Agree with this 100%

@grapefruitsarenottheonlyfruit

Why should he have been able to absolve himself financially in that 12 weeks?

He’d been having unprotected sex with me for four years, most often at my most fertile times. There’s no way it would have been right for him to be able to tell me when I was already pregnant “sorry I’ve changed my mind”. Why should I have shouldered the cost of the children we chose to have alone?

He is their father therefore he has a financial responsibility. The decision over being a Dad was his to make. The two, imo, are not the same thing.

I haven't read the full thread so apologies if this isn't relevant now, but my sister's dad refused to pay for a long time, and CMS contacted his work and had it directly docked from his pay. They had 7 days to get that money to my mum before his driving licence was frozen, which is vital for his job. So I think sometimes it does work!

We struggle to prosecute men for rape in this country so I really don’t think we’d ever be able to do it for failure to pay CM...

I’d say a hefty fine but I don’t think it would be enforced either. No idea what the solution is, men like this are the absolute pits of society.

As a man if you aren't married to or cohabiting with the mother you have 12 weeks from being notified of the pregnancy to formally issue a legal notice relinquishing your parental rights.

But those rights belong to the child, there not the man to relinquish or the mother's to give away.

If there was some way men who dont pay for their first DC could be prevented from having future ones that would help considerably.

Most of the men I know of who've stopped paying for their DC have done it to more than one family unit (lord only knows why the 2nd woman had a DC with them knowing they didn't pay for their 1st DC but...)

If a man wants to start a 2nd family great, but he has to pay everything that's due to his existing DC before that happens.

Also, debt owed should never be cancelled. Many women use all their earnings to pay for child raising when the father absconds, meaning they dont pay into savings or pensions or pay off their mortgage etc.

When the DC leave home, they then have a very short amount of their working life left to make up the huge shortfall they've incurred, it affects their whole life, not just the 18 years or so that their DC lives with them.

It depends on the circumstances in my mind.

@lyralalala I don't think men should be able to relinquish paternity in cases such as yours.

I think it should only be applicable to those not married or cohabiting. Also maybe less than 12 weeks maybe 6.

I was thinking if a woman got pregnant by accident then she would have the choice to continue or not knowing where she stood with respect to the father. With the law being fully on her side to enforce payment if he changed his mind later.

In any case even if my initial idea is unworkable I do think there should be a link between parental rights and responsibilities. At the moment it seems like a lot of men have got the right to see their children and make decisions about them but the mothers and often the taxpayer have the responsibility of caring for the child and paying for them.

Opinion how would you implement this system of men being able to legally walk away. So a man could beg his wife to have a baby. Then once the child is born decide nah not for me. And leave the women with no choice but to do it alone.

But does she have to do it alone? Presumably she could give up for adoption? But of course she won't, because she loves and has bonded with the baby. In a way he apparently hasn't.

If they each pay half for the baby, he is paying for something he doesn't want, and she is paying for something that she strongly does.

I'm not arguing against maintenance, it's just that in general "equality" is often used as a lever to explain why men should do things, while ignoring the multi-faced ways in which the underlying situation is in fact asymmetric.

But those rights belong to the child, there not the man to relinquish or the mother's to give away

Presumably the child would have the same rights as in a sperm-donor situation? Or would you have the use of sperm donors banned?

I was thinking if a woman got pregnant by accident then she would have the choice to continue or not knowing where she stood with respect to the father. With the law being fully on her side to enforce payment if he changed his mind later.

Tbh in a relationship most people know their partners view on abortion and pregnancy. So men already know if their other half is likely to continue with a pregnancy in the case of a contraception failure when the name the decision to have sex.

On a one night stand they don’t know, but they do know if they have unprotected sex there’s a high chance of a baby and if they have sex with a condom there’s a small chance of a baby. So they’re not being tricked or conned into it - once they decide to climax inside a woman they are making a choice to take the risk.

@pettycontractor I was thinking only outside marriage or cohabitation could this ever be an option.

But maybe it's a crap / unworkable idea!

Was just thinking about these types that show up when they get a new girlfriend and want to take the baby away to play with. But they haven't paid, they haven't visited. They aren't really the child's father. They have just supplied their genetic material.

I opened my case with CMS in January.
Ex has ignored every single communication from them (which I knew would happen), so finally Collect and Pay has been set up to to take it directly from his salary. This kicks in in August.

Apart from this he sees his son every 3 or 4 weeks or so for an afternoon - you know, to do the fun stuff.

Twat.

@PettyContractor you do realise that if the woman puts the child up for adoption then neither parent is paying to raise the child they created.

Who do you think should pay for the DC they brought into the world?

What we have at the moment is a system where men don’t have to think about the risk because they can walk away.

The mother, and tax payer if needed, will make up the financial care.

Their chances of further sex won’t be damaged because many women don’t see an issue with it

Their work chances won’t be damaged.

Their social life won’t be damaged.

It’s socially acceptable to walk away from your child completely. It’s socially acceptable to see your child but not pay. Until that changes men will keep impregnating women without any thought to the risk because they know they can just piss off abd no one, often not even the next woman they do it too, will see them as shameful.