To think men that don't pay child support should be arrested?

[HappyLoneParentDay]

Ok I'm not wanting a massive row. Just often thought (after yet another fruitless call to CMS and being told for the 137th time that after 3 years & yet another 'job-hopping' instance that I "have to give him a chance to pay") that despite the CMS being able to take them to Court etc, they very rarely do. Even multiple CMS supervisors have told me on a number of occasions that it's very, very rare that they actually take someone to Court.

Yet in the US, non payment of child support after 6 months, is a criminal offence. Resulting in an arrest warrant being issued.

AIBU to think there's no reason we can't do this?

FYI: He now pays child support on time every month and has done for a while. It is just something I've never been able to understand...

If a parent (Male or female) will go to such great lengths as exampled by the OP, to avoid contributing towards their child(ren), they are determined not to pay. This isn't right, and they can obviously live with their conscience and morals when doing this. If they wanted to contribute they would pay the other parent voluntarily. And I'm not for one minute saying they should have a choice. But if this happens it must be difficult for CMS to pin point a non co-opeartive parent down.
The arguments often come down to what each parent thinks is an acceptable amount. For example resident parents says I need £200 a month, other parent says I cant afford that I'll give you £75.
Resident parent: you can afford more
Other parent: no I can't.... etc etc
No payments made, resident parent contacts CMS.
I don't really know how CMS can resolve the problem, maintenance should be high priority essential expenditure such as mortgage/ utilities but it is not seen as that and I think people need to think about paying maintenance as they would their mortgage. Obviously the threat of prison or losing driving licence isn't enough of a deterrent- but i don't see the logic of a parent going to prison, they obviously won't be able to earn or pay, similarly with the driving licence if it is needed for them to earn.

One of my closest friends here in the US has been through this with her ex.

Initially his wages were garnished. So he switched to a cash-in-hand job.

The courts then took away his passport (he didn't care) and his driving license (he just drove without it).

They then sent him to prison just for a few days. It was very effective. He doesn't ever want to go back.

He now pays up regularly.

He has to pay $600 a month whether he's employed or not. He now works two jobs to make sure he can pay enough to stay out of prison. The courts have zero interest in him saying he can't get a job - as far as they're concerned he has to work to support his children.

@BarbarianMum i agree 100% with what you say, my EXH never paid child support for our two DD's, the men in this country get away with it far to easily, there should be consequences for not paying.

Sweetpea every dickhead would just claim they were tricked into it. They already do but it means nothing legally. And nor should it.
Men's choice whether to be parents starts and ends with sex. Biology dictates that. Just like biology dictates that it's women who have to risk there life to reproduce.

If you don’t pay your council tax bill the council are quick to take you to court and could end in you being jailed. Child maintenance should get treated like council tax. Would save the state too.

I disagree with imprisonment, prisons would be over flowing with the amount of non paying parent

I think if it happened regularly and was publicised (and name and shame it should be), there would be a very quick reduction in the number of NRPs who refuse to pay. The system needs to have the guts to use it’s powers and follow through. Unfortunately, there is neither the political will, nor society’s backing. It’s our fault for having children with these men in the first place. Apparently.

IF councils and HMRC are able to get payment pretty quickly then I don't see why CMS can't.

Again - it's just because politicians are choosing not to make this a priority.

Now - if there were some evidence that a high % of non-paying parents also were unlikely to vote, then politicians might care less about protecting them.

I wouldn't argue against them putting non paying fathers in the stocks in city centres, my dickhead of an exh hasn't paid maintenance for over 3 years. I also think that fathers on benefits shouldn't get away with only paying £5 a week, my exh gets over £300 a week in benefits, if he was earning that much I would be getting £45 a week for ds.

"prisons would be over flowing with the amount of non paying parent"

US prisons are overflowing, but not afaik with jailed deadbeat dads

As a final sanction, if removing passport and driving licence fails, a few days inside coud be a big shock

• even UK prisons are far more unpleasant than the poster upread seems to think, especially for prisoners on shorter sentences

@OdeToDiazepam As stated above he now pays.

And yes they did all that. As I stated in my post to Pip earlier about deduction of earnings - Unfortunately, my ex gets a new job as soon as they start the deduction of earnings order. It takes HMRC 3 months to communicate their new place of work to CMS then takes CMS 60 days to get confirmation from employer and then takes a further 120 days to get the deduction of earnings order up & running. Then once it is, he/they go find another job and get a few months child support-free earnings! 🤷🏼‍♀️ It went on for years like this....

Only read the title, but if true equality is ever to exist it would read 'parent' instead of 'father'.

Peacocking

If all things were equal it would be a 50:50 split of resident childcare from the day of the split.

When my husband got thrown out like he deserved he decided to cease cms payments for his other child that he doesn’t bother with, and refused to pay for the two he had with me, there is now finally after 8 months a deductions order in place but he owes me £2k. May payment wasn’t made it’s a month late but they still can’t explain why. I do think there should be penalties where parenthood is proven and people simply don’t want to pay

With mine it went to enforcement after deduction if earnings failed a few times

I don't know how thins would work. Men have no rights when it comes to abortion. And so they shouldn't. But what if a condom broke. What if a woman said she was on the pill. I don't think I'm that instance a man should have to pay.

Then maybe men should pay more attention to their dicks and sex and realise that contraception isn't always 100% and if you aren't prepared to accept any consequences then keep you keep your dick in your pants. Simple.

I fully support the idea.

The UK ALLOWS men to get away with not supporting their children, with zero consequence. It's fucking shameful.

So, I'm a male RP, high earner, I get nothing, I expect nothing. If my XW decided to get her act together and get a job, I'd still expect nothing. I'd never lodge a CMS claim for pittance a week on principle.

As an aside, I do disagree with the power women (as baby carriers) have over men that don't want children. Yes, wrap it up etc, but there are many cases of a kind of entrapment that I think should be given consideration. I.e. If a female wants to continue a pregnancy (below a certain period of time), then men should have the right to exclude themselves from it if they choose. Both parties given the option (women = termination, men =exclusion) would level the field a bit. There's a kinda gender equality gap until that happens 🤷‍♂️

@SkinnyPete

As an aside, I do disagree with the power women (as baby carriers) have over men that don't want children. Yes, wrap it up etc, but there are many cases of a kind of entrapment that I think should be given consideration.I

What a load of bullshit. No one is forcing a man to have sex. If a man absolutely, positively doesn't want to risk a pregnancy, he is more than capable of not having sex. He can trot off to his doctor and get the snip if he's that concerned. Having sex = potential consequences.

"I think they should dock it directly from their wages." This! It's already hmrc remit, absolutely no reason why it can't be deducted alongside tax and NI.

Also close the loopholes on self employed ones "paying" themselves an artificially low wage but really doing very nicely out of "dividends" etc - how is that allowed tax wise?

But yes ultimately make it a criminal offence.

The argument of it being a waste of money imprisoning them, well it's costing the country a lot of money continually "asking them nicely" right now and I'm willing to bet if there were a few well publicised examples made of these deadbeat areas the vast majority of the other deadbeat arses would shit themselves and suddenly have no problem paying up! Plus making it a criminal offence doesn't mean it necessarily has to result in a jail term, other sentences could be applied.

Hell even just being more willing to send the bailiffs in would probably have a pretty stimulating effect! If my or my sisters ex's genuinely believed it was likely they'd lose their flash cars for non payment they'd soon pay/have paid up!!

AyBeeCee10 where are you? Sounds fab on this issue.

opinion you think it's acceptable for men to change their minds about planned DC after they're here?! The majority of DC I know who's deadbeat - usually male - parent isn't paying maintenance were planned DC, conceived in committed relationships. Although even with unplanned DCs - takes 2 to tango!

"Its also been responsible for people losing there jobs, living in cars, and suicide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" It's not the policy that's responsible for that, it's the deadbeats CHOOSING not to have sex responsibly and then CHOOSING not to pay cm

"All that’s needed to make CMS more effective is the political will do do so. They have the powers already."'agree.

I spent 16 years being messed about by ex and cms (csa previously) allowed themselves to be utterly played by him! He'd not pay, wait till they chased him, pay a reduced amount (which they then classed as him having started to pay), pay full amount 1 month. Then stop and the whole palava would start all over again! It was impossible for me to speak to the same person twice, it was murder just getting through to the right team! Eventually I was assigned a named case worker when it changed to cms and we were transferred over, the case worker was slightly better and after all the nonsense accepted that ex had flown under the radar and pushed for an attachment of earnings which was in place for the last few months before dd turned 18!

Sisters ex is playing the game by working for friends but they own 2 different companies, so a combination of fiddling his pay slips so it looks like he is only on nmw but with regular "bonuses" then when they start to catch up with him he "quits" working for one company, has a month "unemployed" and is then miraculously employed by the same people via the other "new" company. As with my ex he gets away with it because cms won't look at the big picture.

"It’s hugely traumatic for a whole family and carries a social stigma for the child." And what do you think poverty is?!

Plus these deadbeats are rarely the types to have decent regular contact with DC anyway

Mumwon - I'd be satisfied with even litter picking while they wear a bright dayglo vest marked "deadbeat parent"

"And imagine if they curtail abortion rights
If ever there was an argument for emergency birth control and abortion - it’s this"
And yet on another thread I'm currently on access to emergency contraception depends on accessing a pharmacist who's not against dispensing it because THEIR religion is anti abortion!

"Same rules should apply. Strangely, it's only men defaulting - funny, that." While the vast majority of deadbeat parents are men it's not always the case, I know a few deadbeat mothers too. They can absolutely be just as selfish and dodgy as deadbeat dads.

"So, I'm a male RP, high earner...I'd never lodge a CMS claim for pittance a week on principle." Easy to have principles when you can afford them.

Sex can often = baby, that's a fact responsible adults accept.

It's amazing how many men claim their children were unplanned AFTER they split from the child's mother, yet while the couple were together no such thing was claimed!

Child support enforcement in the USA is not a toothless lion. They will get you. I had many years of my ex trying to dodge it, never worked. They will take your drivers license, your professional license, your tax return etc. The money will be taken directly from your wages.
My ex decided he was retiring at 52 and took me back to court to have it reduced. The judge told him tough, get another job, most people cant afford to retire at 52 and the kids will not suffer due to your life choice. then he upped the amount due
I vaguely know a guy who somehow had managed to dodge child support for years, even with a court order in place, he worked for cash and didnt have a bank account so they couldnt take direct from his account. He then retired at 68, his kids were in their 30s and 40s at this point. They took his social security payments to cover all the missed child support he was supposed to have paid. He had to keep working, for cash, or they would have taken that money too. He just quit in April of this year at 74 years old cos he had paid what he was in arrears for.
My neighbor gets sent to jail about once a year for non payment.
In my state the actually want you to go through dept of revenue and have it taken direct from the wages so they can keep track of it.
My ex was an arse but I ALWAYS got the full amount due, on time and if I didnt the child support agency kicked in PDQ and got it sorted.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Those stats the govt produce "raising a child will cost X by the time they are 18" - divide that by 18 x 365 days, daily cost. Apply it to the non resident parent.

A couple of things
you missed a division.

and you can't really work this out as an absolute number.

This had to be done on a case by case basis and that is another part of the problem.

There's a kinda gender equality gap until that happens

It’s called biology mate....

The UK ALLOWS men to get away with not supporting their children, with zero consequence. It's fucking shamefu

It's not just men though is it? If we want change it should be parents regardless of gender.

Plenty of resident parents don't support their children financially either, the state does. That's just as equal to a NRP not paying hcild support.

It should be shameful to not support a child but it isn't for many so any new sanctions need to reflect that. Finainclal provision I should a very basic of parents and nobody has to become a parent in the UK.