Any HR advice please? Urgent.

[BipolarSunset]

Hiya,

I have a disciplinary at work on Friday due to sickness. 9 days for chickenpox, 5 days for a miscarriage and then 1.5 days for when my son was ill.

The only thing I want to know is whether I can be disciplined for the chickenpox? For further information I work in a GP surgery so it's detrimental that I wasn't in work when contagious.

P.S. I already know they can't include the miscarriage - planning to mention this during my meeting.

Thanks in advance!

Yes they can. Are they using the Bradford score?

That's crap then.
Yes they are x

Jesus - the irony of being disciplined for sickness whilst working at a doctors’ surgery.

I suppose potentially they could argue Chickenpox are generally non-contagious after 5 days so you had nearly twice as many as expected but it seems ridiculous.

How long have you worked there?

Have you called ACAS? I don’t think they can discipline you for taking time off to look after a dependent. Also, I’m pretty sure that they can’t discipline you for having a miscarriage either.

I have been there 2 years. Very ironic even more ironic in the fact they offer 0 sick pay.

I had a very severe case of chicken pox and was covered head to toe all down my throat etc and had doctors certificates to certify this.

Seems very unfair to me.

They can discipline you for sickness absence including chicken pox. They can’t discipline you for the miscarriage. They can’t discipline you for taking emergency dependents leave. Your son’s illness isn’t sickness absence for you.

Planning on calling ACAS tomorrow. I know for a fact they can't include the miscarriage. Going to mention that on Friday x

I was really bad when I had chickenpox in my late teens, so think it would be even worse as an adult, kids meanwhile often sail through it..

1.5 days because your son is sick isn't your sickness, that's you being absent without permission (presumably)

re the Chickenpox - here is NHS advice www.nhs.uk/conditions/chickenpox/

Im going to ask the obvious question - are you in a union, if not, why not. Anyone in public sector work really should be

What sort of leave did you use/take when your son was poorly?

I think you are on shaky ground being off 'sick' when you where not sick

9 days with chicken pox seems a little high but if you have a Drs note they shouldn't be questioning that.

whether or not you can be disciplined surely depends on your works sickness policy

My employers won't let anyone take emergency annual leave etc and will count it as a sick. Obviously this is wrong.

I can honestly say my chickenpox was awful, GP was going to hospitalise me at one point so can honestly say those 9 days were completed warranted.

How can they include the miscarriage? Isn't that pregnancy related (sorry OP ) and therefore protected?

Your employer has to record pregnancy related absence separately so that it isn’t used to form part of a disciplinary. If they do use this as part of a disciplinary then you have a case for pregnancy discrimination.

As part of any disciplinary you are allowed to take either a union representative or colleague with you - you must inform your employer in advance. I think you should take someone with you.

Your Bradford score is 42, typically anything under 49 wouldn’t flag a major concern (unless they set their threshold low) so it’s possible they’ve factored your miscarriage in.

Was it your chickenpox and were you signed off?

Do they have a sickness policy and do you have copy? Does that policy cover contagious conditions?

If their own policy says you shouldn’t come in with a contagious condition then you would have been in breach if you had come to work.

I thought you had a legal right to unpaid level for dependants?

I don't believe 9 days for an adult with chicken pox (not shingles) is that bad. Chicken pox is horrendous if you've not be vaccinated and/or caught it as a child.

No they can't use the miscarriage as it is pregnancy related, unless something has changed dramatically in the last few years.

Have you definitely been there 2 years? Not just almost 2 years?

It could be they're having to do this to be seen as fair to others in your team. It may be that they are wanting to dot every i and ensure that there isn't something else going on (maybe).

Have there been any management changes recently? If not I can't see it being "face doesn't fit" after all this time.

Call ACAS, don't be a push over and good luck.

(Cross post, I took too long to write so some of my questions have been answered)

Will assume that 9 days was certificated. Unless there is a history they are probably looking at stage one - informal management action for 3 periods of absence in a 12 month period. Generally this is a chat that says you will be monitored for the next six months in regards to sickness.

They can count miscarriage because as a (heartless) HR person told me it only considered pregnancy related if baby is still born. A reasonable manager though will see this as a mitigating circumstance.

How old is your son? My employer went through a stage of questioning what actions we took to get emergency child care so we still attended work. Either way that should be emergency leave if they do not have or if he is too old for dependents/parental leave.

Did you book the time your DS was sick as sick leave? If yes, that was wrong and they would have reason to be annoyed. You would have also caused yourself an avoidable problem by pushing yourself 1.5 days closer to trigger point for sickness related disciplinary meetings.

I work in HR and yes, they can hold a formal absence meeting if you have been signed off by a doctor / quarantined with chickenpox etc. In my workplace we would probably treat you more favourably since it is a one off, now resolved illness. We couldn't not just have the meeting at all even though you did the right thing by staying away because it would open up a whole can of worms re fairness to other employees who would also think their case should be exempt from the process. Someone who is repeatedly off with similar length absences couldn't maintain acceptable attendance and would be likely to face harsher sanctions.

They cant count the miscarriage under the Equality Act.
You were not off sick when your son was ill so this shouldn't really be included either.
Ask about their policy for time off for dependants. It is managed separately where I work.
My understanding is however, it can be could possibly be included depending on the companies policies and processes. We are currently reviewing our policies to count this kind of absence in with sickness under an Attendance Policy rather than having them as two separate processes, as we have issues with people totally taking the piss with childcare.
We would count yours as 1 instance of 9 days and you wouldn't hit a trigger. You need to clarify what you company processes are. They sound a bit clueless if they are counting a miscarriage. Its basics to know you cant include that.

Are you in a union?

Your son being sick would be better as unpaid leave wouldn't it? Bit mad to discipline you for being sick when it wasn't you ré the chicken pox, it's unfortunate but if you're sick you're sick. The Bradford factor is meant to pick up little and often absences like being hungover every Monday morning, one big absence should not trigger it.

Those numbers wouldn't even trigger the bradford index would they? And the last one is for your son. They can't for that either.

In regards to miscarriage take a copy of this highlighted

maternityaction.org.uk/advice/miscarriage-stillbirth-and-neonatal-death-rights-to-time-off-and-pay-for-parents/

Re the time off for you child - if you are not calling in sick then they should not record this as your sickness. They should know better being a gp!

You have a legal right to reasonable time off for dependants. Hope this link helps www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants