Any HR advice please? Urgent.

[BipolarSunset]

Hiya,

I have a disciplinary at work on Friday due to sickness. 9 days for chickenpox, 5 days for a miscarriage and then 1.5 days for when my son was ill.

The only thing I want to know is whether I can be disciplined for the chickenpox? For further information I work in a GP surgery so it's detrimental that I wasn't in work when contagious.

P.S. I already know they can't include the miscarriage - planning to mention this during my meeting.

Thanks in advance!

They should put your miscarriage down for sickness!! It's not your fault have a union rep b there if they can't then make them wait til you get one present !! Seriously union would have a field day at my place for that that's disgusting!! Xx

*not put down miscarriage for sickness sorry

I thought pregnancy relate absence was not supposed to be counted or disciplined in the same way as other sick leave. Because only women experience it so it's discrimination?

They don't exactly sound like the best employer.

Also I think chicken pox is well known to be worse in adults. So longer off work is expected.

Is it actually a disciplinary hearing or a meeting about attendance? I worked briefly in HR and we held 'Capability Meetings' when certain levels of absence were triggered. It wasn't disciplinary action initially but to see if anything could be done to help improve attendance or support the staff member. If attendance didn't improve you would move through different 'stages' until it would be a case of further action like changing roles if you had a bad back for instance or long-term sick leave if you had an on-going condition. For some people who were taking continual sick leave for colds or 'food poisoning' or whatever, they could eventually be dismissed but a lot of hoops would be jumped through before that point.

Are you an nhs employee?

Are they definitely counting the MC? When we do formal absence meetings we would give you a report outlining all your absences for the last year, but would only actually be 'counting' those marked as sickness. This would be to check if you regularly have Eg a few days planned holiday followed by a day 'sick'

No I'm not an NHS employee, I work for a company who work for the NHS if that makes sense?

They are definitely including the miscarriage as I have asked for copies and dates of back to Works etc which have been given.

They have said a 'meeting' so not entirely sure if it's disciplinary but they have got someone taken minutes and I'm taking a colleague too.

What have they actually said the meeting is for?

Over or under 2 years?

Is it possible this is just a return to work interview/meeting rather than a disciplinary? We have to go through some forms if we are in sick leave for.... a bloody day.

Been there over 2 years.

Meeting is to 'discuss my sickness'

Sounds more like a return to work meeting then disciplinary meeting ? You would know if it's a disciplinary meeting

@TanMateix nope. They do a back to work after every single absence x

As a GP practice they are an NHS Employer? I don’t understand how they can get away with not paying sick pay? Time off for your son is Carers leave or the equivalent it is not sick leave and should not be regarded as such. So that’s 1 absence dealt with, I assume you phoned in and informed them that your son was sick? If so that’s not being absent without permission. You need to get a copy of the leave policy and the sickness absence policy.

The episode for your miscarriage cannot be counted as it is pregancy related.

Chicken Pox ....as it is contagious for a while being off sick for that is not unreasonable, being off for 9 days with it is not excessive when you had a bad case of chickenpox. So there is only actually one episode of sickness. For them to not record carers leave properly is not right, they have created and episode of sickness that is penalising you because you have a child.

The Bradford system is crap, do you know what the trigger point is in your workplace? Some places have a 3 occasions/Bradford score of 150. A trigger point of 49 is ridiculous in a health care setting, staff will catch colds etc and get ill.

The meeting you are having is it a disciplinary or a formal sickness review? I don’t understand why they would go straight to a disciplinary without having followed the formal sickness process. Definitely get ACAS involved, if you haven’t already joined the union then make sure you join. Honestly this all sounds like they are making it up as they go along to me. This is some information for NHS employers about sick leave for staff that GP surgeries employ www.nhsemployers.org/tchandbook/part-3-terms-and-conditions-of-service/section-14-sickness-absence-england

Just to be clear -

July 2018 - 9 days (chicken pox)
August 2018 - 1 day (son sick)
November 2018 - 5 days (miscarriage)
June 2019 - 0.5 (I was unwell)

I have had a back to work after every single one barring when my son was sick. My manager is new and doesn't know why I was off in August - asked me to let him know why I was off so technically no paper trail.

GP surgeries do not adhere to NHS conditions unfortunately.

I don’t think they sound like a good employer at all. Good luck at your meeting.

@Stormy76 unfortunately they are not an NHS GP. They are hired under the NHS but have their own policies and protocols. Crap sickness and holiday policy. Only bonus is I can opt in to the nhs pension scheme.

I have no joined to a union but will be looking into this asap!

The only thing I want to know is whether I can be disciplined for the chickenpox? the answer is no however you were over 7 days so need a drs note. and it could be an automatic system if someone has to many days of they have a meeting the only thing you should be worried about is taking days of sick when you were not sick.

I do think they are partly using me to set an example as there has been a high amount of sickness among staff just not sure why I'm the one they are using.
By all means if I was constantly making excuses and not showing up for unreasonable reasons then go ahead. I work so hard and feel like I am being singled out to a point.

As PP said, your son’s illness is not your own and so shouldn’t be counted as sick or used for the Bradford Factor scoring. It is unpaid emergency dependents leave in the absence of any contractual pay entitlement.

Again as pp said miscarriage should be considered separately as it’s pregnancy related.

The 9 days with chicken pox I presume was certified with a fit note, so to be honest I’m wondering what else is going on? Have you been late a lot? Or had a lot of other types of absences?

The problem with policies based on the Bradford factor is it has a purely mathematical trigger point and doesn’t consider circumstances (e.g. disability or pregnancy) to any degree.

Make sure you put all your points across and if you don’t agree, appeal the decision.

If you’ve not been there 2 compete years then you don’t have the right to claim unfair dismissal. However, if they are using a pregnancy related illness against you you can always take them for discrimination under the Equalities Act.

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New manager, that explains some of it then. Get ACAS advice, get your policies and read them through to make sure that you know what your talking about. It sounds like a first stage sickness review. See if you can find out if they are classed as an NHS employer, if they are there are new terms and conditions being introduced that they have to abide by. If they are not it’s down to getting the policies and making sure that you know them inside out, plus advice from ACAS

I have not read through the replies but miscarriage (as long as they know) is pregnancy related so should be treated differently. Your son being ill should have been parental leave so that only leaves 9 days with chicken pox which I assume as over 7 days you have a dr certificate for.