Power of attorney & bank account (elderly parents)

[elderlyparenthelp]

Looking for a bit of advice please trying to get an app with solicitor for next week!

My elderly nan is nearly 90 she still lives alone but I clean for her, she gets meals brought in and my DM goes as often as she can but as nan is getting older she wants her bank / will sorting out.

Need to change the will to take my uncle's children of now as he has passed away and she is leaving everything to my DM.

Also need to add my DM onto her bank account so she can get money out from the bank for my nan and also when the time does come get the rest of the money out that is left in there (not a huge amount but a few thousand)

My DM has been into the bank today to book an app to take my nan in so she can sign to put my mum onto her account but they said she cant do it without proof of being power of attorney...

Is this true?
How do you become power of attorney?
What happens to your money if you don't have one, who gets it out when you die?

Thanks in advance...

PoA doesn't change who you leave your money to in your will.

I am very glad to hear that the bank wouldn't just add your mother to the account, they are looking after your nan there!

Your nan should ask the solicitor about the PoA when she speaks to them about her will.

Lots of advice on this from Age UK (assuming you are living in England)

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/power-of-attorney/

Or the Alzheimer's Society

www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/legal-financial/lasting-power-attorney

You don't just "get the money out" when your nan dies. Whoever is named as executor in the will will have to apply for probate and once that has been concluded any assets will be divided between any beneficiaries in the will - in this case your DM if you get the will changed.

@ChicCroissant my mum was making my NAN an app so I could take her in so SHE could put my mum on. Sorry if I didn't make that clear

You can’t just be added to account. Or take money when she dies. You need a POA ASAP. But depending on your nana capability may not get it as it’s too late. You will need to meet a solicitor and prove she’s got enough faculties to agree to your m being the poa and they will ask for independent witnesses to agree that your mum will act in her best interest.

@TixieLix so what happens if you have no will does it just go to next of kin?

when she dies her accounts will be frozen, you're allowed to pay for the funeral and house insurance from it, nothing else. All her debts have to be settled then whats left is distributed to those named in the will.

Your nan takes out the power of attorney so that others can help her. The solicitor has to make sure she is competent (ie - not confused). Power of attorney does not mean your mum can take out whatever she wants for herself.

I don't understand the will change - assuming your mum and her brother were the only children, it seems wrong to disinherit your cousins because their father has passed away. In any event it is your nan's will, and a solicitor would again want to make sure she was competent before drawing up a new will.

Offhand I am surprised that your nan would want to disinherit some of her grandchildren.

I doubt you legally need power of attorney to make a bank account into a joint account, but the bank will be concerned for similar reasons.

And if she has no will she dies 'intestate' - Google it to see exactly what it means and how to avoid it. I understand if there is no will then any assets might end up in the hands of the state, but I'm not exactly sure. Google intestate.

Go to a solicitor to sort out PoA. Its standard that you cannot take money out of a bank for someone else without proof of this. A solicitor will travel out to see your nan if she is unable to get to them, Would also be worth sorting the will out too then.

If your nan is leaving everything to your mum, if she owns a house it might be worth putting it in your mums name rather than your nans

Your nan HAS a will. The fact that her son (your uncle) has died will mean that the son's legacy in that will, will pass to his children, so that both sides of the family still get half (assuming that's what the will says).

I did get what you meant OP, but it's still good that the bank won't allow your Nan to add anyone to her account. Because the person added would be able to withdraw all the money - there are threads on here where that has happened.

Anything wrong with just having a joint account with a younger relative so they can take can just take out whatever money is left after the older one dies?

Assume that's what the older one wants and has planned for, mentally competent and know what they are doing. (Though not familiar with UK law and banking practise.)

Inheritance tax not an issue.

Older relative will not leave any other assets.

POA will cost a few hundred pounds to get. Personally, I think it would be unreasonable for your mum to obtain POA without informing your uncle's children. I expect a solicitor would ask about the family situation, anyway.

Im sure the bank could explain this to you

www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

My DM has been into the bank today to book an app to take my nan in so she can sign to put my mum onto her account but they said she cant do it without proof of being power of attorney...

My DM went into bank with her DIL and managed to put her on the account. I don't think any POA was required.

Married couples don't need POA over each other to have a joint account, so I can't believe it's generally required.

I guess it might be required if older person lacks competence, but if a competent person wants to have a joint account with someone else...

Assuming your Nan has mental capacity to make legal and financial decisions then she needs to speak to a solicitor about drafting and registering Lasting Power of Attorney documentation and about updating her Will.

If your Nan has no Will when she dies then the rules of intestacy will come into play and her estate will be divided between her children (including your late uncle whose share will be split between his children)

A Will made by a 90 yo to leave everything to a sole beneficiary and thereby disadvantaging other current beneficiaries, whilst arranging LPA so that same sole person has access to her finances, whilst accompanied by that person, and where that person has made the appointment AND made a previous attempt to access the 90 yo's bank accounts...all looks a lot like financial abuse and I would expect any competent solicitor to be asking some very pointed questions.

Your Mum may well be acting in good faith and according to your Nan's wishes but on the face of it disinheriting her grandchildren for no reason is odd behaviour

If your gran still has mental capacity then of course she doesn't need a poa in place and she can add whoever she wants onto her account. Poa is only activated when someone loses capacity.

Hang on - re reading Nan wants her daughter to be a POA on her account.

Nan wants to removed her dead sons children from inheriting, so the daughter inherits everything.

I smell financial abuse and coercement.

A couple of links

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/power-of-attorney/

www.agingcare.com/Articles/family-fights-over-power-of-attorney-153319.htm

A lasting power of attorney is taken out and registered, but not exercised until the person taking it out becomes incompetent.

Therefore, I would have thought that there ought to be a gap between a person taking out the POA, and it being exercised.

POA ceases on death, so the Attorney would not be able to just withdraw all the money and close the accounts.

If your Nan has a will dividing her estate between your DM and DUncle, that will is still valid despite your uncle’s death. His share would be divided between his DC. It does not need updating.

If your Nan still has capacity - and a solicitor would need to be sure of this - she can change her will and set up a Power of Attorney for your DM. But any changes at this stage would be open to challenge by existing beneficiaries who had been excluded.

Without a valid P of A your mother will not be able to access your DNans bank account. The only way around this is to engage with adult social services and get a carers card on the account.

LPAs can be used with the donor's consent whilst they have capacity - they work as a general power of attorney. For example, a housebound adult with mental capacity might have an LPA to transact business on their behalf - shopping using a POA debit card. A person who will be travelling overseas for a long period may need someone to look after their bills at home so their LPA steps in.

@Gth1234 My nan made a will around 5 years ago (DM & I took her) SHE put in her will that her money was to be split equally between her 2 DC and if one of them was to die her other child would get all of the money.

My uncle probably knew he was going to die before my nan as he had health problems and took it badly, he fell out with my nan for 6 months because of the will (disgusting if you ask me) and then made up with her, we now realise after reading her will that he took her to a solicitor and she changed her will to leave his half to his children.

She does not see or hear from his children and never has, she does NOT want her money going to them.