Power of attorney & bank account (elderly parents)

[elderlyparenthelp]

Looking for a bit of advice please trying to get an app with solicitor for next week!

My elderly nan is nearly 90 she still lives alone but I clean for her, she gets meals brought in and my DM goes as often as she can but as nan is getting older she wants her bank / will sorting out.

Need to change the will to take my uncle's children of now as he has passed away and she is leaving everything to my DM.

Also need to add my DM onto her bank account so she can get money out from the bank for my nan and also when the time does come get the rest of the money out that is left in there (not a huge amount but a few thousand)

My DM has been into the bank today to book an app to take my nan in so she can sign to put my mum onto her account but they said she cant do it without proof of being power of attorney...

Is this true?
How do you become power of attorney?
What happens to your money if you don't have one, who gets it out when you die?

Thanks in advance...

How was she to know that your uncle would pre-decease her? It sounds very risky making a will to make a potential (non) beneficiary happy, in the hope they pass away before you, so that you can then change it back to what you intended in the first place. No solicitor would advise you to do that. What if your nan had died shortly after making this will? Very strange.

Sorry, just read that that's specifically what she wants.

Speak to an lawyer . It costs about £82 for POA for both health and welfare and property and financial services .plus any fees from a lawyer . It can take a while to process . You need to to have your mum sign and have witnesses for each attorney This needs then to go to the office of the public guardian for registration . I know this as I work for a lawyers and deal with this on daily basis .

@SolsticeBabyMaybe Oh I definitely don't have bad intentions, I wont even be getting a fiver so its no skin of my nose! I just want to know when my nan dies that she was happy how she left things, she has lived a long life and this part of the will with my cousins is actually making her very depressed.

@paw1977 thank you.

like I said my uncle took her behind our back and changed her will.

Isn't that what you're doing now? Surely if you're arguing she was somehow forced into that will a few years ago, yet you say she has full mental capacity then something doesn't quite stack up - especially as it took her 5 years to "remember" that these grandkids were still included.

I'm not saying you or your DM have bad intentions and the financial practicalities of caring for older relatives can be a nightmare, but for her sake and others, I hope the bank (and solicitors) take the full appropriate steps to make sure this is all above board and truly what your gran wants.

@longearedbat she didn't like I said he was very ill, I'm not going into detail about that, she just wanted a relationship with her son but he wouldn't make things right without the will change.

Also - do your uncles kids know grandma changed her will to benefit them?

If she changes it (back) to leave everything to your mum could they challenge this given a POA will be put in place?

I’m not saying anyone’s doing the wrong thing here - I work with private client trusts and have had to deal with wills and family disputes a lot (not a lawyer but do the admin side of things). Just thinking if they knew they’d been added and there was an expectation for inheritance etc they could make a claim/challenge. Something to bear in mind and to ask the solicitor about.

@TheHodgeoftheHedge No, read it properly! The FIRST will was made over 5 years ago with exactly what SHE wanted in it. Then my uncle took her and it was changed.

Then SHE asked me to go through all of her things (funeral plan, will, bills etc) So I (who has no name in the will) no exactly what she wants and were everything is when she does pass away.

Then she asked me to make an app with a solicitor so she could change her will back to what it was.

@ememem84 I am guessing my uncle would of told them, but she didn't tell them herself no.

It will be up to my nan (which I need to ask her) whether they will be told when she has passed.

I am not sure why you would need POA to add someone on to the account. My DH added me to his joint account with just the usual checks re id etc. I have a separate mandate on my mother's bank account which enables me to withdraw money (I have a card on account in my name) set up and cancel direct debits and standing orders. Also to sign cheques. My name is not on the account and if she passes the mandate is no longer valid and the account wil be blocked. They suggested in the bank that she make it a joint account but mum did not want that and neither did I. A joint account when one party dies is amended into the name of the survivors on the account. I also have a sister who might have been a bit annoyed if the account ended up in my sole name when mum passed. In the old days the account ledgers for joint accounts had "payable to either or the survivor" branded on the ledger page. I think when adding someone you can have it as both to sign or make it clear the monies in the account belong to the primary owner. Also I have just realised if someone has POA they cannot benefit themselves with it. So adding themselves onto a sole account and then when the other person dies and the account is amended into their sole name would not be right. You DGM has to have her full faculties to make anyone POA. You need to see a solicitor. If your mum gets POA then she will be able to operate the account without her name being on it. I wonder if the bank official misunderstood what was required and thought she wanted access to the account but leaving it in sole name. Things may have changed but I do not see how they would require POA to add someone to an account

@Celticrose thanks will look into it

if you think your uncle would have told them, then absolutely mention this to the solicitor. as they could (in theory) make a claim. i believe probate can take up to a year and during that time, any beneficiary/potential beneficiary can contest the will (at least that's how it works here - i'm working off of Jersey Law, which usually follows English Law (assuming your in england and not scotland which i think is different again..)).

it's one of those shouldn't be complicated but has the potential to become complicated situations i suppose.

i would probably get your grandma to make sure in her will that she specifies whether your cousins are to be told or not of her passing. this way at least whoever the executor is can actually say that they were just following the wishes of the deceased. that's what i'd do anyway.

the last time i had to speak to a client about a will was a while ago, and suggested to them that they made sure that following their divorce the will was changed (as it left everything to the ex wife). he was reluctant to do this but it was pointed out to him that if he was to die with the will in place, there was the potential that his kids (not hers) would be disinherited. he changed the will.

Also get her to draw up a letter of wishes that specifically states that she does not want x y and z to benefit from her estate as they have made no effort to maintain a relationship with her before or after the death of their father. That way if they challenge the will there's a very clear statement of why she changed the will.

What does she say happened when she made the will benefitting your late uncle's children? If she was coerced on that occasion she should tell the solicitor she sees this time about it. Also it if there is some she trusts who is not you or your mum but who could support her in these discussions then she should talk to them about being with her (and you and your Mum should not be there)

Has your Nan tried to contact the grandchildren? It might be worth while, he may have fed them all kinds of lies etc. It may reconcile them before her death and they could both get a lot out of that. Far more than money can buy.

Do not pay a solicitor to do the POA, you can do it yourself as long as someone verifies she has capacity.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/make-a-lasting-power-of-attorney

Solicitor will charge a fortune when you only have to pay a small fee!
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/600966/LPA120-Lasting-power-of-attorney-and-enduring-power-of-attorney-fees.pdf

Forms are pretty straight forward.

One someone has confirmed she has capacity you can then get the will changed.

Ignore people saying you can just get added to an account. That's probably true but you're opening yourselves up to accusations of financial abuse that way. POA will mean you can legally handle the money.

You really don't need to pay a solicitor to draw up a POA. It's very easy to do it yourself online using the direct. Gov pages.

I recently did just this for my DM and it only cost the fee for registering the POA with the Office of the Public Guardian which was about £40.

The other grandchildren will (rightly) challenge this will