Power of attorney & bank account (elderly parents)

[elderlyparenthelp]

Looking for a bit of advice please trying to get an app with solicitor for next week!

My elderly nan is nearly 90 she still lives alone but I clean for her, she gets meals brought in and my DM goes as often as she can but as nan is getting older she wants her bank / will sorting out.

Need to change the will to take my uncle's children of now as he has passed away and she is leaving everything to my DM.

Also need to add my DM onto her bank account so she can get money out from the bank for my nan and also when the time does come get the rest of the money out that is left in there (not a huge amount but a few thousand)

My DM has been into the bank today to book an app to take my nan in so she can sign to put my mum onto her account but they said she cant do it without proof of being power of attorney...

Is this true?
How do you become power of attorney?
What happens to your money if you don't have one, who gets it out when you die?

Thanks in advance...

OP there is a lot of incorrect information being given out here. Get the appointment with the solicitor or an estate planner and assuming your Nan has capacity she should follow their advice.

Agree with pp that the above scenario would raise a lot of red flags for elder/financial abuse

-elderly woman's daughter wants access to her bank account
-elderly woman's daughter wants to change her will to benefit herself

While you/your mum are trying to help your nan, many people doing what you describe would be simply trying to take advantage of the elderly woman. Unfortunately people do this :( That's why you'd need Power of Attorney to help administer her bank account (NOT joint access), and similarly to the will.

Very important to make sure these will changes are actually what she wants.

Basically, as poster said above, your nan needs legal advice

@MyOpinionIsValid i probably sure of said the reason in the OP but like iv just mentioned my uncle forced her into it so he would make friends with her, they were never on the original will.

Didn't want it to be this outing tbh

Well if her current will states that if her money goes to her DC but if one predeceases her then it will go to the remaining DC she does not need to change her Will then, does she?

Anything wrong with just having a joint account with a younger relative so they can take can just take out whatever money is left after the older one dies?

Of course there's something wrong! There are processes and rules for distributing assets after death, you can't just help yourself. In the OPs case, the children of the deceased uncle would have a claim if the grandmother dies intestate.

@OKBobble like I said my uncle took her behind our back and changed her will.

If it was what she really wanted she would of left my mums half to her DC but she didn't. She just did what would mend the relationship between her and her son at the time.

I’m confused. What you’re describing is your mum becoming joint party to the account. POA is more for when the owner of the account is not able to administer it themselves.

Your mum doesn’t need proof of anything other than to satisfy the banks KYC protocol, but I agree this has probably raised some vulnerable customer concerns.

If she then made a further one unless you have proof her coerced her or placed her under undue pressure then that will would stand.

If she is of sound mind she can of course get a new will drawn up leaving it to whoever she wants. She does not need a PofA to do that. If she wants to add a signatory to her account then she should phone the bank and ask to do that, not your Mum.

@elderlyparenthelp sounds like a lot of guessing, 'if it was what she really wanted she wouldn't've...', by trying to guess at these decisions you'd risk doing the same thing uncle did and influence nan's decisions. If she has capacity, she can make these decisions herself and doesn't need other people guessing and deciding for her... she should see a solicitor

We have got solicitor to come out who is going to do a POA with her, thanks for the advice.

honestly my DM doesn't care about the money but she would rather see it go to charity than go to 3 GC who have NEVER bothered with her mum, they don't even ring her. When her son was dying they didn't even bother to tell her so she could say goodbye, just rang an elderly woman whilst she was ALONE and told her that her son was dead, they truly are vile.

My nan is very much healthy mentally and very much so speaks her mind, she doesn't even class them as GC after what they did when my uncle passed, she didn't even want to see them at his funeral but obviously had to...

*@MyOpinionIsValid *
*Hang on - re reading Nan wants her daughter to be a POA on her account.

Nan wants to removed her dead sons children from inheriting, so the daughter inherits everything.

I smell financial abuse and coercement.*

Snap, better she doesn't make a will at least then the grandchildren from the son will benefit.

honestly my DM doesn't care about the money but she would rather see it go to charity than go to 3 GC who have NEVER bothered with her mum, they don't even ring her.

This is a classic indicator of financial abuse.

This is not your DMs money and she has no say in where it goes.

The fact that your nan appears to have been coerced (according to you) into changing her will some time ago doesn't say a lot for her mental state tbh.
You need legal advice. Go and see a solicitor with your mum and your nan.

@SolsticeBabyMaybe Like I said in my Pp, my nan made a will over 5 years ago, she put exactly what she wanted in that will, The inheritance was to be split evenly between her SON & DAUGHTER and if one of them were to die before her, the other child got the full amount, Uncle fell out with her over it and then somehow his children end up in the will.

She asked ME to go through her will because she forgot herself they had been added, once she realise she wanted them removed.

The only reason my DM needs to be on the bank is so she can go in and get money out FOR my nan, she needs cash to pay weekly her gardener, milk man hairdresser etc but doesn't go out herself, we can obviously go to the cash machine for her but if she ever wants larger amounts then she would have to go to the bank herself, which isn't easy anymore because they are all in town without parking nearby 🤷🏻‍♀️

Well if her current will states that if her money goes to her DC but if one predeceases her then it will go to the remaining DC she does not need to change her Will then, does she?

what the OP is saying is that this was the original will, but the uncle persuaded his mum (GM) to do a new will so that his children would benefit. The OP now wants to get the will re-written again to exclude the uncle's children inheriting his share.

I don't think this is particularly outing - it just seems to me that depending on the value of the estate, there could well be a lot of unhappiness at the very least after the GM passes away.

*My uncle probably knew he was going to die before my nan as he had health problems and took it badly, he fell out with my nan for 6 months because of the will (disgusting if you ask me) and then made up with her, we now realise after reading her will that he took her to a solicitor and she changed her will to leave his half to his children.

She does not see or hear from his children and never has, she does NOT want her money going to them.*

She had capacity and chose to do a will. That will stands as her last will and testament. Therefore I don't understand you asking what happens if she doesn't have a will, she does have one and that's it!

If she does another will that one counts.

@longearedbat my uncle was very sick and she just wanted to have a good relationship with him before he died after 6 months of no contact, she had already lost one child so changing her will didn't matter at the time as she knew she would change it back once he passed.

Having just gone through the process - it is actually alot simpler than some above make it sound. You need to download the forms from the Official Guardian www.gov.uk/government/publications/make-a-lasting-power-of-attorney

Provided that you NAN is still capable of making her own choices, then you can complete this form and she signs it. You will need an independant witness - so someone not related to her or your mum if she is to be the appointed person - to sign to say that she still has capacity to make these decisions and you send it all to the guardians office with the appropriate fee. About 12 weeks later the paperwork appears, provided noone as objected in that time. At this time your mum (or whoever the appointee is) can go to the bank your NAN uses - doesnt have to be the same branch - with the POA document and their own ID and be added as a POA to the accounts. You can do the same with gas/elec etc.

In terms of a will I don't think a POA can rewrite a will. A will can only be done by a person of sound mind. If there is an existing will it cannot just be ignored in favour of a no-will option. It would need to be redacted.

If there is genuinely no will then the estate will get split between her children (assuming there is no husband/legal partner), any predeceased childrens share is split between the children of that sibling.

@boobirdblue I was asking that just for general knowledge.

Also op just nearby in mind that if your mum (or anyone) was to take money from the account before probate had been granted it technically could be classed as theft.

@Gth1234 THANK YOU 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Like I said, its a few thousand £, that would get split, not worth getting in an argument about! But its about what my NAN wants.

@ememem84 she wouldn't need to my nan's funeral is fully paid for thankfully.

@elderlyparenthelp

Sounds like you have done the right thing.

I'm definitely not trying to suggest that you or your mum have bad intentions, just explaining that there are things that need to be done because some people sadly do have bad intentions. Unfortunately, I have met and am related to people who have attempted such things for their own gain! These people exist :(

I hope you get it all sorted and it's good you're looking out for your nan.

Why do your Uncle's children get removed from the will? They're still her grandchildren, so don't they get half and your Mum gets half?