AIBU about school imposing new sanctions?

[BumbleBeef30]

Today DC came home and said they had assemblies today in which they were told about new sanctions for issues such as having your shirt untucked or missing equipment, e.g. a purple pen.

I don’t mind it when a school has a sudden outbreak of enforcing uniform issues or ensuring all children have the right equipment using the original sanctions because, no matter how silly I may think it is to give a child a detention at break for a missing pen, those are the rules which were on the home-school agreement and I signed up to it.

I didn’t sign up to these new sanctions, which seem overly harsh and likely to punish only those children whose parents can not afford to replace items which break or go missing unexpectedly.

An occurrence of missing a pen now gets you sent to detention for three lessons; two occurrences get you isolation for three lessons; three occurrences get you sent to isolation for a whole day; and four occurrences earn you a fixed term exclusion. Theoretically a child could go to school on Monday without a pen and be excluded by Wednesday.

Before anyone says, I know pens are cheap and fairly easy to replace, but some people are forced to live hand to mouth at the moment, and the same new sanctions apply if you don’t have exactly the right type of shoes. Whereas before it might be a phone call to parents reminding them that shoes need to be lace-up, now it’s an immediate detention followed by isolation.

What’s more is that the school hasn’t sent home any information to parents, apart from an email containing the letter they give all new Year 7s about the standards they expect. No mention of sanctions at all - just a basic “we want every child to succeed and because of this we expect skirts to be knee length, all students to have the correct equipment, etc”.

AIBU to wonder what the fuck is going on at that school? Can schools just change sanctions whenever they feel like it? And should they be introducing these new, much harsher sanctions without letting parents know about them?

I have a lot of respect for your views, but this is very naive. They don’t

So just to clarify, you think despite my experience of schools where this form of behaviour policy is working and working well, you're saying it doesn't work.

Now just have a little think about that.

The thing I find bizarre about all of the petty rules is that in the workplace there is so much theory about autonomy and intrinsic v extrinsic motivation. It seems like schools go to the opposite end and take away as much autonomy as possible by imposing stupid rules. I always remember being irritated at school that we had to wear a blazer in the summer while teachers wafted in in floaty summer dresses. It was always under the guise of preparing you for work but that seems like crap really as in my professional life, I wouldn’t wear a jacket in 30 degree heat. If anything, all the petty rules and dictats actually make young people less employable because it takes away opportunities to think for yourself and develop a bit of common sense.

JacquesHammer

I am sure it works sometimes, with some children. I have enough experience of my own.

My DD goes to this school, I recognise it from your post, the behaviour at the school has gone down the pan over recent years, the rude, disrespectful behaviour is out of control and is very likely my DD has had so many new teachers. It is probably not apparent if you are lucky enough for your children to be in top sets.
there had to be a drastic change and sometimes if children know they are in a lot of trouble for the small stuff - logically they know that for the big stuff it will be a lot worse iysim
There is only an issue if your child doesn't follow the rules, I welcome the change, it's long overdue.

JacquesHammer

And what you seem to be saying - when you come right down to it - is that exclusion and isolation are no-gos, and all disruptive, rude, lazy behaviour can be dealt with by having a nice chat. You see, I would love to believe that. I just don’t.

Funnily enough ds said last night that they have been asked to bring a purple pen in by the end of the week. I was going to Tesco anyway so I got him some. Tesco is 4.7 miles away. The only purple pens were in a pack of Bic coloured ones and it cost me £4.99. Now I am fortunate that I could afford to buy them. A few years ago I wouldn’t of been able to. £4.99 was a 10th of my weekly food budget at the time. My Dh was extremely poorly and was unable to work at the time. The ds’s had stationary but not a purple pen. The thought that my ds would of been punished because I wouldn’t of been able to afford it makes me angry and upset.

I’m a teacher and I find some of the rules abhorrent. In the summer our students aren’t allowed to take blazers off without the heads permission. In 99% of jobs you will not have to ask your boss to take your suit jacket off. My work outfits change with the seasons and in the summer I’m usually in wide leg cotton trousers and a cotton top to keep cool.

I feel that all these rules are making our jobs so much harder. Yes I feel that every child should come to school with a pen. As long as you have one I don’t care what colour it is. I tell plenty of children to tick their shirts in and they all comply. They certainly don’t need to go in to isolation for it.

Herculepoirot you’re fixated on the idea that any child who doesn’t obey the rules is a spoiled over-indulged brat with parents who worship them so much they let them get away with anything. It’s really quite disturbing how much vitriol you have to what you perceive as spoiled “little darlings.” Comes across like you are projecting a lot.

That’s irony for you.

herculepoirot2

DC1 has been in isolation and said it was one of the worst experiences of his life. It’s a kind of mental torture.

Please. Please stop saying that

Well I'm going to say it again. Isolation is mental torture. It is well known to have detremental psychological effects. And I'm sure that would be exacerbated in the case of children or young people.

Imo this "isolation booth" thing is a hugely worrying development in schools.

Well I'm going to say it again. Isolation is mental torture. It is well known to have detremental psychological effects. And I'm sure that would be exacerbated in the case of children or young people.

You can say it as many times as you like. Doesn’t take away the need to prove it, or the need to have a sensible alternative.

I'd suggest that anyone who thinks that sitting still and silently, staring at a blank wall for literally hours is 'just boring' and therefore an acceptable form of punishment for young people should try it themselves. Give it 15 minutes or so. Then imagine you have to do it all day. Those defending it really sound like something out of another age.

I'm not against the use of isolation if the student has appropriate work to do and is able (and allowed) to communicate with a member of staff if there is a problem. It should be reserved, however, for persistent disruption or seriously bad behaviour. Not forgetting your pen or having the wrong socks on.

I agree that the point of these draconian rules is to promote authoritarian thinking, and to ensure that children from disorganised families or those with issues meaning they struggle to remember everything will avoid the school, or leave because of the way they're treated. I was a well-behaved and quiet student (ASD, would never have dreamt of talking in class or arguing with teachers). I was also chronically disorganised and extremely anxious. I'd never, ever have coped in school if they had been like that when I was young. (And before accommodations are mentioned, I was over 30 before I got my diagnosis - being academically able and quiet meant that it wasn't picked up on. It didn't mean that it wasn't there).

I wonder where the 'rules are rules' people would draw the line. If corporal punishment was made legal again, and your child's school introduced it, would you say 'oh well, that's the rule, it's not hard to remember a purple pen so if you don't have one and get caned that's your own fault?' The argument made on this thread isn't that having the right equipment isn't important. It's that disproportionate punishments for not having it are wrong.

MsMaisel

I am well aware that some children come from dysfunctional backgrounds. It doesn’t need pointing out to me. You have projected a lot on to my posts and then accused me of not caring about those children, which isn’t the case, but I don’t believe you intend to listen, so I don’t want to discuss it with you any further.

And what you seem to be saying - when you come right down to it - is that exclusion and isolation are no-gos, and all disruptive, rude, lazy behaviour can be dealt with by having a nice chat

Actually, rather than taking implications you can read my posts exactly as they're written.

Give it 15 minutes or so. Then imagine you have to do it all day.

I wouldn’t like it. But that’s why I don’t commit any crimes, because it is what would happen if I did - prison. But not for an afternoon.

I don’t agree with hitting children, for the record.

JacquesHammer

I believe I did. If I am wrong, please clarify them.

If I am wrong, please clarify them

They're literally on this thread.

Incidentally, you have said this to another poster "You have projected a lot on to my posts".

Worth considering.

herculepoirot2 if you Google "isolation torture" you will get a gazillion psychology papers proving the point. I accept that one hour of isolation does not constitute torture, but many children and teenagers are being subject to days and weeks. And many of them have prior mental health problems which is why they are getting in trouble in the first place.

The solution? I'm not an expert, but I suspect funding for more classroom assistants, plus extra mental health and behavioural help for young people would come into it (yes, you would have to pay higher taxes).

Herculepoirot2 the point is, surely, that he wasn't focusing on what matters. If he had, I wouldn't have anything to complain about. And no I didn't tell him how to do his job. So it wasn't down to me that he had to be sacked after a damning Ofsted report and a set of crappy GCSEs.

Parents shouldn't be interfering in every little aspect of school life. I've never been 'that' parent. Equally, an unsatisfactory head shouldn't be allowed to continually wreck young people's education. Because while he can go and get another job, they only have one chance at school.

My son actually said to me that he learnt more in a few hours with me going through English reference guides than he had done in a whole school year. I believe that poor practice comes from the leadership team, and he demoralised the entire teaching staff by focusing on the wrong thing. Which is what this OP is about. Sometimes it's not the right thing to ignore what's going on.

JacquesHammer

Look, I am asking you to clarify something. You don’t have to. But if you did, I might understand the difference between how I have interpreted you and what you meant. Your call.

New sanctions sound bonkers and even this :“we want every child to succeed and because of this we expect skirts to be knee length”. In what way do different length skirts affect anyone's success??? If there is any kind of justification for uniform rules it would be to be proud of school identity and present a smart look.

It’s quite telling that you refuse to acknowledge things like abused and neglected children. How bad were your parents that you project all this jealousy into children.

Please. Save it.

That’s honestly one of the most shocking things I’ve ever read on MN.

And my GOD you can’t read.