AIBU about school imposing new sanctions?

[BumbleBeef30]

Today DC came home and said they had assemblies today in which they were told about new sanctions for issues such as having your shirt untucked or missing equipment, e.g. a purple pen.

I don’t mind it when a school has a sudden outbreak of enforcing uniform issues or ensuring all children have the right equipment using the original sanctions because, no matter how silly I may think it is to give a child a detention at break for a missing pen, those are the rules which were on the home-school agreement and I signed up to it.

I didn’t sign up to these new sanctions, which seem overly harsh and likely to punish only those children whose parents can not afford to replace items which break or go missing unexpectedly.

An occurrence of missing a pen now gets you sent to detention for three lessons; two occurrences get you isolation for three lessons; three occurrences get you sent to isolation for a whole day; and four occurrences earn you a fixed term exclusion. Theoretically a child could go to school on Monday without a pen and be excluded by Wednesday.

Before anyone says, I know pens are cheap and fairly easy to replace, but some people are forced to live hand to mouth at the moment, and the same new sanctions apply if you don’t have exactly the right type of shoes. Whereas before it might be a phone call to parents reminding them that shoes need to be lace-up, now it’s an immediate detention followed by isolation.

What’s more is that the school hasn’t sent home any information to parents, apart from an email containing the letter they give all new Year 7s about the standards they expect. No mention of sanctions at all - just a basic “we want every child to succeed and because of this we expect skirts to be knee length, all students to have the correct equipment, etc”.

AIBU to wonder what the fuck is going on at that school? Can schools just change sanctions whenever they feel like it? And should they be introducing these new, much harsher sanctions without letting parents know about them?

I would love to know what people thing actually should happen when a child refuses to comply with school rules. Anyone?

*think

I would love to know what people thing actually should happen when a child refuses to comply with school rules. Anyone?

In the words of the wise duo, I would rather the punishment fit the crime....

@herculepoirot2 are you the assistant head struggling to implement this policy? Do you think if this fails we might return to the cane for unruly students with a pen that's the wrong shade of purple?

No. Quite simply.

Cane. Definitely. Or doomed to clean the staff toilets - in a purple jumpsuit. Or perhaps you might just use some communication skills and find out what the problem is. Or try and chill out and decide pen colour does not actually matter.

JacquesHammer

Well, put that aside for a moment. The pen thing is irrelevant. If it is torture, what do you suggest as an alternative? Let’s say a child won’t stop talking over the teacher. Teacher gives an hour detention after school. Child says, “No way am I attending that.”

What next?

Or perhaps you might just use some communication skills and find out what the problem is. Or try and chill out and decide pen colour does not actually matter.

You keep making things up if it keeps you entertained.

Sometimes. But if sitting a child in a room and asking them to be quiet and not disrupt anyone by talking/tapping/sighing/rocking on a chair is torture, a textbook isn’t going to make it okay.

You're trying to minimise this, herculepoirot. It's more than sometimes.

I quite agree that giving a child a textbook doesn't make the use of isolation rooms OK. That's the whole point. Children have a statutory right to full time education and, in the case of those with SEN, provision for their SEN. Sitting them down for hours on end in "punishment" for not having the right colour pen, even with a worksheet or a book, is neither education nor SEN provision.

The pen thing is irrelevant. If it is torture, what do you suggest as an alternative? Let’s say a child won’t stop talking over the teacher. Teacher gives an hour detention after school. Child says, “No way am I attending that

The pen thing isn’t irrelevant though.

Child talking over teacher, child disrupting lesson - absolutely I would support relevant sanctions.

But if not having a pen is THREE detentions, how on Earth are they leaving themselves space to escalate.

As an aside DD’s school don’t use isolation either.

JacquesHammer

It is irrelevant if isolation is torture. We don’t torture people. So are you saying you support isolation in cases of defiance, or that it is torture?

Isatis

Same question to you. What should schools do in the case above?

*Teacher gives an hour detention after school. Child says, “No way am I attending that.”

What next?

Equivalent detention during school hours, e.g. half of the lunch break. Withdrawal from things the child enjoys, e.g. membership of teams, parts in plays etc. If that doesn't work, sanctions up to and including exclusion. At least with an exclusion the child has a statutory right to full time education on the sixth day.

Oh bless @herculepoirot2 here you are defending the indefensible and mocking me for daring to suggest communication skills as a strategy. Cane it is then? How do you escalate from isolation?

So are you saying you support isolation in cases of defiance, or that it is torture?

No I don’t support it. I think it’s a counter-intuitive method of discipline.

JacquesHammer

So the alternative is?

Cane it is then? How do you escalate from isolation?

You aren’t someone I am going to take seriously.

Equivalent detention during school hours, e.g. half of the lunch break. Withdrawal from things the child enjoys, e.g. membership of teams, parts in plays etc. If that doesn't work, sanctions up to and including exclusion. At least with an exclusion the child has a statutory right to full time education on the sixth day.

Child says no to detention. That’s already happened. Parents aren’t supporting. No involvement in clubs. Child just repeats the behaviour.

So exclusion then?

Child says no to detention

They visit student services to discuss how to improve their behaviour.

We had the same at school “ok, you’ve done X - what do you feel is going to stop you doing X again. Why did you do X”.

Ridiculous. I'd be writing to the board of governors/head teacher straight away and getting as many other parents on board as possible.
No pen = use a pencil.

They visit student services to discuss how to improve their behaviour.

They don’t or won’t. Exclusion?

You see, this is the problem. All this handwringing is ignoring the fact that the step after isolation is exclusion. Schools are doing their utmost to prevent that, and are being accused of torturing the children.

And it ignores the reality that, in the vast, vast majority of cases, schools have tried every strategy they have in their arsenal before they exclude.

They don’t or won’t. Exclusion?

You see, this is the problem. All this handwringing is ignoring the fact that the step after isolation is exclusion. Schools are doing their utmost to prevent that, and are being accused of torturing the children

No need. It works because you treat the children as reasonable individuals with their own autonomy and they respond.

But then DD's school has no arbitrary rules such as "have a purple pen" or petty rules about uniform being identikit or ridiculous sanctions if someone forgets something.

If a school sees isolation as a reasonable method of "punishment" then there's something fundementally wrong with the ethos of the school.

Any institution which tries to 'impose order' by ridiculous, disproportionate punishments for minor offences is on a hiding to nowhere.
Remember that government of any kind can only exist with the consent of the governed - laws are often changed/abolished when enough people simply refuse to obey them. A regime which tips over into brutality, corruption or absurdity will be toppled sooner or later: some academies and free schools are already going under because enough people noticed that those running them were crooks, idiots or not fit for purpose in other ways. The current uniform obsessions will go the same way soon - it's becoming steadily clearer that it's doing more harm than good and that pupils and parents dislike the amount of time and effort and money involved (low-quality overpriced branded clothing that can only be bought from one shop does not instill a sense of community or pride, and kids from low income families are becoming aware that all the uniform sanctions are punishing them for stuff outside their control to the extent of it being discriminatory.) OP's purple-pens issue is a fine example of this (an overpriced, hard-to-source item is suddenly mandatory and punishment is piled upon punishment for being unable to source said item: soon enough the whole school will rebel and the SMT will have to back down.)

It works because you treat the children as reasonable individuals with their own autonomy and they respond.

I have a lot of respect for your views, but this is very naive. They don’t.

OP's purple-pens issue is a fine example of this (an overpriced, hard-to-source item is suddenly mandatory and punishment is piled upon punishment for being unable to source said item: soon enough the whole school will rebel and the SMT will have to back down.)

And funnily enough I agree with this. Purple pens is fucking stupid.

But basic discipline isn’t.