AIBU about school imposing new sanctions?

[BumbleBeef30]

Today DC came home and said they had assemblies today in which they were told about new sanctions for issues such as having your shirt untucked or missing equipment, e.g. a purple pen.

I don’t mind it when a school has a sudden outbreak of enforcing uniform issues or ensuring all children have the right equipment using the original sanctions because, no matter how silly I may think it is to give a child a detention at break for a missing pen, those are the rules which were on the home-school agreement and I signed up to it.

I didn’t sign up to these new sanctions, which seem overly harsh and likely to punish only those children whose parents can not afford to replace items which break or go missing unexpectedly.

An occurrence of missing a pen now gets you sent to detention for three lessons; two occurrences get you isolation for three lessons; three occurrences get you sent to isolation for a whole day; and four occurrences earn you a fixed term exclusion. Theoretically a child could go to school on Monday without a pen and be excluded by Wednesday.

Before anyone says, I know pens are cheap and fairly easy to replace, but some people are forced to live hand to mouth at the moment, and the same new sanctions apply if you don’t have exactly the right type of shoes. Whereas before it might be a phone call to parents reminding them that shoes need to be lace-up, now it’s an immediate detention followed by isolation.

What’s more is that the school hasn’t sent home any information to parents, apart from an email containing the letter they give all new Year 7s about the standards they expect. No mention of sanctions at all - just a basic “we want every child to succeed and because of this we expect skirts to be knee length, all students to have the correct equipment, etc”.

AIBU to wonder what the fuck is going on at that school? Can schools just change sanctions whenever they feel like it? And should they be introducing these new, much harsher sanctions without letting parents know about them?

This sounds crazy. It's piling punishments onto any kid who comes from a chaotic home the kid who most needs support instead. Pens cost nothing the school could supply spare biros. And if they can't squeeze them into the budget he teacher could ask any willing parent to bring biro donations to parents evening or something.

As for refusing to educate your child because they have the wrong shoes on? That sounds like a violation of a child's right to a education and a dereliction of duty on the part of the school. I would challenge it with the local authority if my child was excluded for anything that did not directly impede their own ability to learn or someone else's. No uniform infraction rises to that level. ]

In my day teachers were respected by the pupils and parents. There were no stupid rules regarding detention unless you tried to strike the teacher or swore. The staff engaged with the pupils, went to sports with them, ran the football and hockey teams and were so good that most people that were at the same school as me fondly remember these teachers by name up to 68 years later. They had classes of 48 children, maintained strong discipline and taught so well that many went on to do great things and become successful.
Nowadays the teachers on the whole are so poor that it is a wonder that any child would leave school being able to read, spell or add 2+2 and make 4.With these new rules they show their own inadequacy.

So agree with you OP my children are at the same school !!! Don’t mind my daughter being told to roll her skirt down but I think they should be sorting teaching out first. My son hasn’t had a maths teacher just supply’s for three years when I pointed it out the head of maths was gin smacked hadn’t realised! My daughter is in pretty much the same position. I regularly email in and just get pathetic wishy washy answers.
The kids have set up a page listing the ridiculous reasons their friends are sent to sanction for. They are laughing at the system which seems to be a little over zealous shall we say
Worry about the big things not a year nine for sneezing for god sake

Gob smacked not gin !

Worry about the big things not a year nine for sneezing for god sake

A child was sent to isolation for sneezing? What, actual sneezing, rather than fake, attention-seeking sneezing and then arguing the toss? Really?

He complained all the way through secondary how he was bored in school, particularly in mixed ability classes; and he didn’t see why he should do what teachers, who were less intelligent than him, said

I agree with Jelly that this is disrespectful. My son came home from school about 18 months ago saying he'd had an "argument" with a teacher and narrowly missed a detention. I think he thought his dad and I would support him and was rather shocked when we both said we thought he'd been really rude to the teacher and was lucky to avoid the detention. He went off in a huff but I didn't hear anything else about unreasonable teachers other than general things like having to wear ties when the girls don't (and there haven't been any detentions).

I think it must be hard for teachers to teach very intelligent kids but those intelligent kids will always have something to learn even if it's not subject specific.

Lots of schools have these stupid rules, staff dont want to enforce them and would much rather lend the child a pen than give a detention. I thinl of it like this - yes I want children to get the notion of being organised, however here is a valid point - whe you are at work if you need a pen you go to the staionary cupboard to get one, if you are in a meeting or traing course pens are generally provided and generally paper. Secondary school is the only place where you are expected to carry all the equipment round that you need. The measures in place sound draconian, and the punishment disproportionate to the offence and there is no evidence to back up that having your shirt tucked in helps you learn better.

Nowadays the teachers on the whole are so poor that it is a wonder that any child would leave school being able to read, spell or add 2+2 and make 4

I disagree. Just as at any time in the history of state education, there are excellent, good, inadequate, and just plain bad teachers.

Teachers are having to cope with a vast array of challenges in the classroom today that they didn't have to in days gone past.

The level of contempt many people have towards schools and teachers rubs off on their students. It's not helpful, it really isn't.

I think it must be hard for teachers to teach very intelligent kids but those intelligent kids will always have something to learn even if it's not subject specific.

And although I have never met a pupil who had nothing they could learn from me, if I did, I would treat them with the same respect I showed to every other student in my class. Why should I expect anything different from them?

1800swoman

This is true, but other expectations of the workplace are going to be far more onerous than anything encountered at school. Teaching students to come equipped for learning is just another way of teaching them about life.

Nowadays the teachers on the whole are so poor that it is a wonder that any child would leave school being able to read, spell or add 2+2 and make 4.

My experience is exactly opposite - I have huge respect for both the teachers in my kids school and teaching colleagues I work with daily. They deal with increasing levels of complexity in the children they work with, cope with some frankly batshit parents and constant changes in the education agenda for the most part with grace and good humour. My children both have challenged in their learning, their school has consistently worked to support them to access the curriculum. I think it’s entirely possible to disagree with discipline measures such as isolation without rubbishing teachers trying to do a good job in trying circumstances.

I think I understand why you thought my attitude was damaging @herculepoirot2 but my sense is we’re actually on a similar page but for isolation - some of the attitudes on this thread are bloody scary.

have challenges in their learning

I think I understand why you thought my attitude was damaging @herculepoirot2 but my sense is we’re actually on a similar page but for isolation - some of the attitudes on this thread are bloody scary.

I apologise for my comments. They are, aren’t they?

Our children go to the same school I think, the one on a hill? Every item of clothing has to have the school logo on or it’s a detention, including gym leggings. 😳

It’s ridiculous and has changed so much since our eldest started (she’s just finished her GCSEs), and our second eldest is in yr 9. Considering not sending youngest daughter there next September.

Honestly, I think I just assumed a basic level of respect for professionals from most parents, I understand where you’re coming from now so if nothing else this thread has achieved that.

jellycatspyjamas

Which is what decent people do assume! Thank you.

Is it an academy by any chance. A few seem to be following American style zero tolerance. It's very sinister.

I think with isolation, the thing is that the tools the schools have with which to deal with negative behaviours are so damned limited?

It's not like in 'the good ol' days' where you could maintain discipline of 48 children because every other kid didn't have complex issues, the parents would give them a hiding if they got in trouble at school, and the teacher could give them a sodding good hiding too. . .

Which is not to say that is desirable. . .

Personally I think Bumble's DC1 had it about right. Prisoners have to do something pretty bad to be put in isolation. The idea that children are being out in these booths to satisfy some idea of school standards appalls me. I would have seriously considered withdrawing any child of mine subjected to that treatment. I remember a teacher loudly castigating my DS in assembly when he was 6 for the state of his uniform. I had sent him in a pale blue shirt (under his jumper) because his grey one was still damp. This from a woman who regularly wore a pink and mauve track suit for work. Schools are there to educate and I fail to see what a child learns from this kind of treatment.

Ugh we have a purple pen school too.

And believe me it's not bloody easy to find purple pens!!!! Why can't they just use a normal colour?!?!?!

They need teachers in the class to do the work with the pen they have to have That isn’t happening in too many lessons

herculepoirot2 Really it was a friend of my daughter. Even the isolation staff sent her back

StreetwiseHercules

By being an epic pain in the arse.

I look forward to you future posts, especially the being banned from the school grounds

and

The teachers won't take my calls and I can only speak to the SLT.

Ated
Nowadays the teachers on the whole are so poor that it is a wonder that any child would leave school being able to read, spell or add 2+2 and make 4.

Good to see that you are not buying in to the media and political bullshit. (sarcasm), Maybe be less of a sheep and think for yourself.

I run an adult education centre for special needs however was previously secondary. If you are an inspiring teacher, passionate about your subject and able to engage your students and help them discover and think and challenge themselves then you haven’t got a problem. Teacher who rely on “easy” lessons using worksheets without properly explaining (or sometimes themselves understanding) the topic is a major issue. I have also been an inspector for four years and have seen some wonderful, and some horrendous, teaching. I remember one maths class being told that the question must be wrong in a past paper as that wasn’t possible - to a year 11 class three weeks before exams started. It certainly was possible and I quietly showed the student a method to use. The second time I inspected the same teacher she had swapped segment and sector formulas around - I quietly advised her to check the formulas. She had the best intention but was a music teacher covering in maths as it transpired and that was far from unusual. My son is also special needs with DCD (dyspraxia) and would find it impossible to tie his shoelaces and certainly would never manage to keel his full stationary for a week let alone a term or longer. It is easy to say the parents are to blame - they are not always, but it is an easy label to put on. Senior manager also who shouldn’t be in their position is also a further issue - for various reasons some are promoted beyond their abilities and try to force sanctions like this as a show of force. I had it previously with a deputy head when in secondary - my classroom had windows fully on two sides, with few and restricted openers (about 2 cm) and the heating went wrong on a hot summers day and was pumping out heat. It was sweltering and frankly unsafe for the students. Despite efforts to change rooms I had to stay and told students to take off blazers (normally compulsory) and anything else needed as long as I didn’t see bare chests or underwear. We got on with the lesson and we’re firing through an intensive lesson, with real achievement when the Dep Head came in and ordered everyone to put back on blazers etc - I said we should step outside into the corridor and said was ridiculous - it was 90 degree in there (F) and the only way they were going to achieve any work was to be as comfortable as possible. He disagreed. Thankfully the head however who had much more common sense agreed and the heating issue was soon resolved. But that action lost him huge respect to the students - was it worth it - definitely not in my opinion. (He at a later date fell asleep on a coach outing and the head girl and friends painted his face with a silly face using eye pencil and photographed him...)...