AIBU about school imposing new sanctions?

[BumbleBeef30]

Today DC came home and said they had assemblies today in which they were told about new sanctions for issues such as having your shirt untucked or missing equipment, e.g. a purple pen.

I don’t mind it when a school has a sudden outbreak of enforcing uniform issues or ensuring all children have the right equipment using the original sanctions because, no matter how silly I may think it is to give a child a detention at break for a missing pen, those are the rules which were on the home-school agreement and I signed up to it.

I didn’t sign up to these new sanctions, which seem overly harsh and likely to punish only those children whose parents can not afford to replace items which break or go missing unexpectedly.

An occurrence of missing a pen now gets you sent to detention for three lessons; two occurrences get you isolation for three lessons; three occurrences get you sent to isolation for a whole day; and four occurrences earn you a fixed term exclusion. Theoretically a child could go to school on Monday without a pen and be excluded by Wednesday.

Before anyone says, I know pens are cheap and fairly easy to replace, but some people are forced to live hand to mouth at the moment, and the same new sanctions apply if you don’t have exactly the right type of shoes. Whereas before it might be a phone call to parents reminding them that shoes need to be lace-up, now it’s an immediate detention followed by isolation.

What’s more is that the school hasn’t sent home any information to parents, apart from an email containing the letter they give all new Year 7s about the standards they expect. No mention of sanctions at all - just a basic “we want every child to succeed and because of this we expect skirts to be knee length, all students to have the correct equipment, etc”.

AIBU to wonder what the fuck is going on at that school? Can schools just change sanctions whenever they feel like it? And should they be introducing these new, much harsher sanctions without letting parents know about them?

Try to finish my point...

Mainstream is not working for every child in mainstream with SN. Some are placing themselves in danger, or others, or not receiving an effective education, or preventing others from doing so. No amount of talk about adjustments will change this. I hesitate to say it because I know it goes down like a ton of bricks on MN, but I am at a point of disillusionment about it that forces me to accept that this is what I think. Some children with SN need a different solution.

Other children with SN could cope with school but, like lots of children without SN, they are badly parented. Excuses are made for things that are within their control or totally unacceptable, SN or not. Again, I know how unpopular this view is, so would appreciate not being jumped on for telling the truth.

By being an epic pain in the arse.

It’s good to see that some aspirations can be achieved with a minimum of fuss, isn’t it?

I'd be concerned about bullying with such extreme measures. I can remember kids likely to be in trouble for forgetting their equipment stealing pens etc from other pupils. With these measures a child could be targeted and got into trouble by another.

Schools are hugely sensitive to poverty OP and spend vast amounts of time supporting poorer kids. They will NOT be punished for not affording stationary.

SOME schools are hugely sensitive to poverty.

Some children WILL be punished for not affording stationery in schools with policies like the OPs

My teacher friend had a "pen of shame" for the regularly ill equipped. She had some normal cheap biros for one off mistakes but persistent offenders would be given a ridiculous novelty pen. They never went missing and she found very few pupils forgot their pen for her lesson.

Some children with SN need a different solution.

I couldn’t agree more with this, mainstream education just doesn’t suit some children for a variety of reasons and having decently funded options for children with support needs would go a long way to reducing the use of policies such as isolation and exclusion which disproportionately impact children with ASN.

I do think schools can only adjust so far and for some children it’s simply not enough.

jellycatspyjamas

I am glad we agree. I thought I was going to get flame roasted. 🔥

What went wrong?

I think people just don’t value education enough.

Oh give over.

Social deprivation.
Parents relying on food banks to ensure their kids are fed (so perhaps not quite so concerned about purple pens).
Early intervention and diagnosis for children with additional needs severely lacking.
Ridiculous waits of years and years for ASD diagnosis.
Disenfranchised children and parents.
Less help for parents (and children) with mental health issues, substance abuse etc
Ofsted.

Take your pick, from these and more

Oh give over.

Well, I do think that. I am not only talking about those who are disadvantaged in the ways you describe. I am talking about the “By all means give my child detention, but do it on YOUR time” crowd. Reasonably off, often educated, professional people, who simply don’t see how their child’s education is their responsibility.

And the “My child is learning how to do complex maths when we go to the shop - what does it matter that his attendance is 86%?” crowd.

And the “You have no authority over my child please provide free childcare“ crowd.

DS called the education system “slave labour”! Once he had learnt to read, write and do arithmetic by about the end of the infants, he was nearly always bored! I took him to the library on a Saturday and he chose 10 books. As he had read those by Tuesday, I took him again for 10 more. He read his way through the children’s library of our town and two neighbouring towns. We are both graduates and I am into all the arts, while DH is into science and sport - we took the children at weekends to every museum, art gallery, zoo, aquarium, stately home, wildlife reserve and theme park with 100 miles of our house and our parents’ houses.

He said to me:

“I learn more from you two, and my reading, than I do at school!”

He complained all the way through secondary how he was bored in school, particularly in mixed ability classes; and he didn’t see why he should do what teachers, who were less intelligent than him, said. He got frustrated at A level, when he asked questions and the teacher said they couldn’t go into that, as it was degree level.

He loved university, because finally he was taught by people who really know a lot about the subject and he could drop into their office for a chat. He got a first at a RG university and they asked him to stay on as an academic!

He puts on Face Book “self educated”, so no, some children don’t see the state education system as a free gift at all - because they are bored all the way through!

he didn’t see why he should do what teachers, who were less intelligent than him, said.

And you said what to that? Because whether or not a child should do as they are told by the adult responsible for them has nothing to do with intellect, does it?

So he basically disengaged and you encouraged it Mont I don't know why you didn't just go the whole hog and home educate.

By the way that attitude won't be welcome in the work place so he will have to grow up and swallow some of that pride.

Much as I dislike these silly sanctions I dislike know it all superior kids even more.

And I have taught students who got 1st class degrees at RG unis - they did exactly as they were asked and were thoroughly nice people. Being clever doesn’t excuse being a twunt.

slave labour

As an aside, a child unable to tell the difference between slavery and a whole infrastructure set up to free him from exploitative labour practices, where everyone is working for him, doesn’t strike me as very precocious.

By the way that attitude won't be welcome in the work place so he will have to grow up and swallow some of that pride.

Actually, he was one of nine students to get a job out of a 1,000 who applied to his professional firm; and one of only two from his intake who qualified on time. Well liked by the staff and partners, and exceeding expectations in performance and attitude. I forgot to mention he is extremely good at getting along with people.

By the way that attitude won't be welcome in the work place so he will have to grow up and swallow some of that pride.

But still, Mont, that attitude will not be welcomed. Has he told any of the Partners that he doesn’t have to do as they ask because he is more intelligent than they are? Doubtful.

Actually, I was too busy with DD2 - I had a suspicion from the time she moved off picture books that she did not understand what she read. I brought it up first 4 years at secondary at parents evening. The teachers just said “What a shame!” I spent 5 hours a night reading her school textbooks and teaching her what they were about, and how to structure her homework. Eventually I had her assessed privately by a leading speech therapist and a principal neuro-educational psychologist, from a top developmental centre. They found her processing speed was low, relative to her IQ and she barely extracted any meaning from spoken and written language - she had to repeat every sentence three times in working memory to work out what it meant, while more language poured in. The psychologist put in a written report, I gave to the school, she needed the Powerpoints from every lesson in advance, to give her something to hang the words on, and 25% extra time in exams.

Not one teacher ever gave her a PowerPoint in advance, and they refused to give her extra time in her A levels - until I threatened to take them to the Disability Tribunal. Not one teacher ever considered either that DD1 had also developed a life threatening condition in her teens, and the whole family suffered post traumatic stress! DD2 was suffering depression and anxiety during her A levels, and only actually sat the papers, because the GP prescribed Prozac for being suicidal 3 weeks before her exams.

Because getting the powerpoints in advance, Mont, is not a reasonable adjustment.

It sounds like she had things hard, but it is no excuse for your son’s attitude.

Did nobody sit you down and explain why that couldn’t happen, Mont? That is a bit shit, to be fair.

So why did they refuse her extra time in her A levels, when they had a report recommending it - and I had told the 6th form pastoral team about her mental health? They promised to put her down for the school counsellor - but she never got to see her either.

She determined herself at university she has ADD, which was confirmed by MH professionals.

The university puts all slides and recordings of lectures on line in advance anyway, and put her on a Learning Support Plan so they provided her with a Dictaphone to record all lectures, assigned a PhD student to help her with research, she had a study mentor to teach study skills, gives her extra time for all work and exams, allows her movement breaks during exams and she does them in a room by herself.

MontStMichel

I haven’t a clue. How would I know? What reason did they give you?

He complained all the way through secondary how he was bored in school, particularly in mixed ability classes; and he didn’t see why he should do what teachers, who were less intelligent than him, said.

I’m sorry, there’s a level of disrespect there that I’d find utterly unacceptable in my child. Teachers train for years, often holding a degree in a core subject followed by post grad and Masters level qualifications, whether he thinks his intelligence is superior or not the idea that he has nothing to learn from academic staff in schools would be strongly challenged if he were mine. I certainly wouldn’t be proud of it.

I want my children to know their teachers have something of value to teach them, they might never use the particular subject knowledge but good study skills, discipline, respect and being teachable are life skills -working collaboratively and valuing diverse contributions are hugely valuable values to have.

I suspect that attitude is some of what @herculepoirot2 is talking about.

I suspect that attitude is some of what @herculepoirot2 is talking about.

It is.