AIBU about school imposing new sanctions?

[BumbleBeef30]

Today DC came home and said they had assemblies today in which they were told about new sanctions for issues such as having your shirt untucked or missing equipment, e.g. a purple pen.

I don’t mind it when a school has a sudden outbreak of enforcing uniform issues or ensuring all children have the right equipment using the original sanctions because, no matter how silly I may think it is to give a child a detention at break for a missing pen, those are the rules which were on the home-school agreement and I signed up to it.

I didn’t sign up to these new sanctions, which seem overly harsh and likely to punish only those children whose parents can not afford to replace items which break or go missing unexpectedly.

An occurrence of missing a pen now gets you sent to detention for three lessons; two occurrences get you isolation for three lessons; three occurrences get you sent to isolation for a whole day; and four occurrences earn you a fixed term exclusion. Theoretically a child could go to school on Monday without a pen and be excluded by Wednesday.

Before anyone says, I know pens are cheap and fairly easy to replace, but some people are forced to live hand to mouth at the moment, and the same new sanctions apply if you don’t have exactly the right type of shoes. Whereas before it might be a phone call to parents reminding them that shoes need to be lace-up, now it’s an immediate detention followed by isolation.

What’s more is that the school hasn’t sent home any information to parents, apart from an email containing the letter they give all new Year 7s about the standards they expect. No mention of sanctions at all - just a basic “we want every child to succeed and because of this we expect skirts to be knee length, all students to have the correct equipment, etc”.

AIBU to wonder what the fuck is going on at that school? Can schools just change sanctions whenever they feel like it? And should they be introducing these new, much harsher sanctions without letting parents know about them?

JacquesHammer

That’s you, though. I am asking you what you think should happen when a child does this, because I can assure you, it happens.

JacquesHammer

And no, I don’t want the third degree about my job, thanks.

It is an issue I have addressed above. I agree; some students need not to be punished for lack of equipment. That doesn’t mean - as another poster is suggesting - that the best thing for them is never to be punished for anything. That’s well-intentioned stupidity.

Or, as was the case with my reading books being destroyed constantly as a child, it is a good way for a teacher to say “it’s ok, we know it’s not down to you and we’ll do what we can to help”.

And the poster didn’t say never punished for anything, just not punished for not having the specific equipment as that is never completely within the child’s control

For those arrangements to be made the school first needs to know about his home life (which requires an extremely high level of safeguarding and care, which many schools sadly lack).

I am not trying to argue that it is a perfect system. It is, however, a better system than one without boundaries. Many of the most disadvantaged children - as you say - have never been taught the fundamentals of delayed gratification, restraint, prediction of consequence etc. Not teaching them because you are afraid of being unfair is the worst thing you can do for them.

And the poster didn’t say never punished for anything, just not punished for not having the specific equipment as that is never completely within the child’s control

Read again?

That’s you, though. I am asking you what you think should happen when a child does this, because I can assure you, it happens

Well in the last 18 years I've never, ever had it happen. So I can assure YOU it hasn't.

And no, I don’t want the third degree about my job, thanks

Aaaaah, well THAT speaks volumes.

Well in the last 18 years I've never, ever had it happen. So I can assure YOU it hasn't.

It is a simple question. If you don’t want to answer, then you are still not engaging with my point. Some children will not comply when teachers are being reasonable with them. What do we do then?

Aaaaah, well THAT speaks volumes.

I have no idea what you mean.

I think it’s quite clear that you’ve never been a disadvantaged child, and hopefully haven’t worked with them as you just don’t have a clue.

Kids in some schools have no chance because of bullshit like this. And they won’t have unless they have teachers and head teachers who are brave enough to put their heads above the parapet with the latest gimmicks and not pretend that all the support that is needed is actually available to make shit like specific pens and branded uniform accessible to all.

I think it’s quite clear that you’ve never been a disadvantaged child, and hopefully haven’t worked with them as you just don’t have a clue.

That was a quick example of being wrong twice in quick succession, Lyra.

Well then you should know better because as that child and that worker I’m astounded by you if you are not just on the wind up.

lyralalala

We have different opinions about how to help disadvantaged children. That’s all.

*A "telling off" from the teacher was usually enough and because the teachers knew all the kids individually they were able to tell which ones were being deliberately naughty and which were indicative of deeper issues. The ultimate punishment was a "telling off" from the headmaster which of course meant the head got face to face time with problem pupils and could therefore ask questions to probe for any problems at home.

Isolation does none of these things but creates a wall between pupils and teachers.*

Good teachers try those things first. Sometimes they simply do not work. I agree entirely that isolation may not work, and I also agree that some students need more creative approaches for things like equipment issues.

However, when I have actually presented situations where children - disadvantaged or not - have shown simple poor behaviour or defiance, and neither a discussion nor a lower level sanction has been effective, nobody has been able to suggest a better solution.

And yours includes punishing them for things outwith their control and setting standards they have no chance of meeting.

I’m not a fan of setting children up to fail when their lives are hard enough already.

Especially when you have an idealistic view of what is easily available to such children in terms of support.

and neither a discussion nor a lower level sanction has been effective, nobody has been able to suggest a better solution

Actually various people have you just choose to ignore it.

I’m not a fan of setting children up to fail when their lives are hard enough already.

Nor am I. I am a fan of modelling clear expectations, reminders, graduates consequences, restorative conversations and yes, where appropriate, more serious sanctions. Disadvantaged children need that framework even more than privileged children.

Actually various people have you just choose to ignore it.

Nah, bruv.

MsMaisel

I completely agree with your posts. I worked for a charity providing sport as diversionary activities for teens in inner city areas, and first time offenders.

Treating them in the same way as I treated the kids at the local private school would have been ridiculous.

Nah, bruv

It always makes me laugh when kids call me bruv. I tend to laugh then reciprocate. Suddenly becomes waaaay less cool.

Agree hercule. Why do we have such low expectations of our most disadvantaged children?

It’s not about low expectations, it’s about having expectations that they can actually achieve.

Being A pen. Don’t wear anything outrageous. Be courteous to your teachers and fellow pupils.

Show them that their effort in the things they can control will be rewarded in life.

Put them in detention for the wrong colour own and the wrong logo on a uniform and you just teach them that no one cares that they don’t have access to the budget.

The difference in a school that punishes children who look “unkempt” and the one that gives children access to the HE dept washing machine is that the kids in the second school with shit parents stand a chance. In the first they spend their life in isolation getting more and more angry at the world.

Being A pen. Don’t wear anything outrageous. Be courteous to your teachers and fellow pupils.

But I have given examples of students not being courteous to their teachers and fellow pupils, and asked what should happen, and people have avoided the question.

I think we’re at an impasse here. You think you’re right, I think you’re wrong and vice verse. Luckily we don’t have to work together.

You’ve called me an idiot, said my attitude is damaging, said my children are en route to exclusion from school etc etc. You've insisted that following the rules, regardless of how ridiculous, is essential to gaining a good education.

You’ve not produced any evidence that suggests isolation as practiced in schools improves discipline or engagement - there’s evidence on this thread that it disproportionately impacts children with additional support needs and does in fact impact mental health.

I’m in a school system which manages without restrictive rules or punishing kids for things they have no control over and, oddly enough, the children still manage to behave in school and gain a good education.