AIBU about school imposing new sanctions?

[BumbleBeef30]

Today DC came home and said they had assemblies today in which they were told about new sanctions for issues such as having your shirt untucked or missing equipment, e.g. a purple pen.

I don’t mind it when a school has a sudden outbreak of enforcing uniform issues or ensuring all children have the right equipment using the original sanctions because, no matter how silly I may think it is to give a child a detention at break for a missing pen, those are the rules which were on the home-school agreement and I signed up to it.

I didn’t sign up to these new sanctions, which seem overly harsh and likely to punish only those children whose parents can not afford to replace items which break or go missing unexpectedly.

An occurrence of missing a pen now gets you sent to detention for three lessons; two occurrences get you isolation for three lessons; three occurrences get you sent to isolation for a whole day; and four occurrences earn you a fixed term exclusion. Theoretically a child could go to school on Monday without a pen and be excluded by Wednesday.

Before anyone says, I know pens are cheap and fairly easy to replace, but some people are forced to live hand to mouth at the moment, and the same new sanctions apply if you don’t have exactly the right type of shoes. Whereas before it might be a phone call to parents reminding them that shoes need to be lace-up, now it’s an immediate detention followed by isolation.

What’s more is that the school hasn’t sent home any information to parents, apart from an email containing the letter they give all new Year 7s about the standards they expect. No mention of sanctions at all - just a basic “we want every child to succeed and because of this we expect skirts to be knee length, all students to have the correct equipment, etc”.

AIBU to wonder what the fuck is going on at that school? Can schools just change sanctions whenever they feel like it? And should they be introducing these new, much harsher sanctions without letting parents know about them?

Well, I have asked you, haven’t I?

And I responded. Not unusual in a conversation I find.

Let's look at Emma. Why doesn't she want to do PE.

Far easier to get to the bottom of the issue rather than punishing her for an opinion.

Unfortunately that isn’t true. There seems to be a widespread absence of common sense that has taken hold over the last few years, with people arguing:

I find that in school with simple rules the other issues can be dealt with easier.

Once you add in layers of complexity then it makes it harder because there’s too much firefighting going on

Admittedly things may have changed dramatically in the 18 months since I stopped having any involvement in schools (other than my kids) but I still think schools with simple rules tend to have better discipline than those that don’t.

There is a change in attitude from 10/15 years ago, that’s true, but a lot of the time inconsistencies and poor school management just make it worse because once you put one rule up for debate you have parents and pupils (and staff sometimes) think ‘well that was up for debate so everything is’

JacquesHammer

Well, let’s say I ask her. She says, “‘cos it’s cold.”

Well, let’s say I ask her. She says, “‘cos it’s cold.”

Do you really want me to answer? Or are you simply going to tell me I’m wrong?

I deliver sport in schools hence my expertise in this area.

Tbh I think purple pens are a small symptom of bigger issues.

If you roll it all the way back the reason for coloured pens is to make marking easier. The reason marking needs made easier is because teachers don’t have enough time which is because of the 1001 stupid things teachers have to do because of inspections

JacquesHammer

Please, do.

It's wrong to take your experiences with the Cressidas of this world and apply it to the Jadens who have to get themselves up and ready for school because mum's passed out drunk on the sofa.

Yes, it is. It is also incredibly important for Jaden that the place where he attends school has boundaries and clear expectations. He needs that. He needs to learn that being told off or sanctioned for things within his control isn’t abuse; it comes from concern. He also needs empathy and yes, sometimes, leniency. But not all the time.

See I think there has to be a middle ground between the type of secondary ds2 went to, which had zero discipline, and was pretty much like the Wild West; and the sort of thing described in the OP. I home ed now, so I don’t have any skin in this game, but we seem to have two ends of the spectrum, and no common sense at all.

MsMaisel

Purple pens are a load of wank.

I am suggesting that children from abisive backgrounds be sanctioned sometimes, yes. That process is part of supporting them. They cannot be supported properly by going through five years of school without ever being expected to exercise control over their behaviour, and without the expected level of their control over their behaviour increasing as they are offered other forms of support.

I frequently come across "Emmas". What they never, ever expect is for me to say "ok, grab your coat and come watch".

What they also don't expect is that standing watching is bloody miserable - but what can they say? They either lose face and say they want to do it, or they brazen it out without complaining

PE is pretty much designed in schools to turn pupils off and boredom gives way to them trying to get out of it.

If you listen to the kids, tailor whatever sport you're delivering to make it reasonable to them then you don't have problems with behaviour.

Emma might never want to play rugby - that's absolutely fine, she never has to - but she might enjoy the keep fit, or the passing, or finding out that she actually likes being in control so helps me or works with smaller groups.

What Emma really means when she says "it's cold" is "PE has been utterly rubbish to this point, so what's the point".

hercule are you a teacher?

Off topic, but why on earth would students be required to use purple pens? What's wrong with a blue or black one?
I don't think I've ever used a purple pen in my life (outside of felt-tips) - clearly it's a UK thing - but why?!

JacquesHammer

Not at the moment.

He needs that. He needs to learn that being told off or sanctioned for things within his control isn’t abuse; it comes from concern. He also needs empathy and yes, sometimes, leniency. But not all the time.

Uniform and equipment is not within Jaden’s control. Jaded doesn’t control the family budget, nor does he control his access to it.

Unless you are going to allow Jaden to use his free school meals (if he’s entitled to them) to buy things other than lunch they are not within his control

JacquesHammer

Which is fine, when it works. Sometimes, they say “Nah, bruv” and walk off to find their mate, who is skipping Chemistry. What do you do then?

I agree @jacqueshammer. I was an Emma. What I meant was “all the popular kids use PE as an excuse to pick on and exclude the rest of us. I also feel really self conscious and insecure about my body, especially in my PE kit”. As an adult I found that I enjoyed keep fit like aerobics, just not competitive sports.

Uniform and equipment is not within Jaden’s control. Jaded doesn’t control the family budget, nor does he control his access to it.

And therefore he needs help. He needs access to a hardship fund and for equipment to be kept at school. Those arrangements can be made.

However, when Jaden takes the pen he was given apart and uses the end to probe his mate Leyton’s ear for wax, what he needs is a detention.

But how is a child who's been abused and neglected from birth supposed to "learn" if he's not treated kindly and gently shown proper behaviour, but simply punished for things he's never been taught how to do?

You teach them.

However, when Jaden takes the pen he was given apart and uses the end to probe his mate Leyton’s ear for wax, what he needs is a detention.

But that’s not the same as detention for not having the pen in the first place. Which is the issue, because atm all that happens in schools like the OPs is that Jaden doesn’t have a pen so he gets sent to detention. Then that ramps up so quickly that Jaden is written off as a kid who never bothers.

Jaden already has few chances in life, stupid rules like specific pens rather than a pen disproportionately affect kids like Jaden and take away chances staff to realise that Jaden needs help, not punishment because he’s in isolation all the time and teachers are too busy checking pen colour to pick things up.

But that’s not the same as detention for not having the pen in the first place. Which is the issue,

It is an issue I have addressed above. I agree; some students need not to be punished for lack of equipment. That doesn’t mean - as another poster is suggesting - that the best thing for them is never to be punished for anything. That’s well-intentioned stupidity.

Which is fine, when it works. Sometimes, they say “Nah, bruv” and walk off to find their mate, who is skipping Chemistry. What do you do then?

I've been coaching since I was 18. All age groups from 3 until adult.

It has never happened. I am yet to meet a kid that needs even referring on to a higher authority.

I mean sure, Bradley might run amok, grab a tackle bag and start scything down all his team-mates. In reality kids just want to do the bloody lesson with someone who knows what they're doing.

You can keep adding in all this nonsensical hyperbole but it isn't proving anything other than, not everyone experiences everything as you do.

Not at the moment

Are you currently working in education in any capacity?

ColdTattyWaitingForSummer

The PE kit thing is a big one for me. I never expect the girls to wear shorts/gym skirts UNLESS they want. Quite often, not knowing what they''ll need for a rugby session they will have brought none regulation joggers/leggings - don't care, as long as you're comfortable.

My only caveat is those that have forgotten or don't have safety equipment don't do full contact.