... to not tell my militantly vegan friend she ate fish sauce?

[Snuffalo]

I am a relaxed vegan, as are one of my kids, the other kid and my partner are mostly vegetarian. Basically what that means for me is that I would never spend my own money on animal products, and I wouldn't use them in my own cooking, but if someone else prepares food for me or I'm a guest in someone's home I'll eat what's put in front of me, for the most part - I won't have a sausage or a burger at your barbecue, but I'll eat the pasta salad even if has cheese in it, and I'll have some of your birthday cake even if it's made with eggs.

Anyway, my friend Alice- who is a militant, rather than a relaxed, vegan

• was over and I heated up what I confidently thought to be vegan sweet potato and black bean chilli that my partner had made earlier in the week. I know the recipe backwards and forwards because one of us makes it at least once a month with zero animal products so I had no reason to suspect otherwise. I must say it was especially delicious this time - because, as it turns out, my partner added some fish sauce because he'd read somewhere that it's good in chilli. I didn't find out until today and now I'm wondering if I should tell Alice? I can't decide if, in her shoes, I would want to know or not. Would you?

Why wouldn’t you get to eat together with your family if you don’t eat animal products?

That’s ridiculous.

So you know that what the OP is describing is not being a vegan. Good. That does not apply to many on this thread!

Lol at the ‘Or add fish sauce’ in the recipe

@Snuffalo

There is no larger definition of a vegan diet than a vegan diet. It is absolutely binary.

why does everyone but me get to decide where the line is between good enough and not good enough?

And this is the crux of it for me. There is no kudos in being vegan but you seem to think there is. It is a term yo describe a certain way of eating and living.

The vegan diet has been defined since the 1940s.

However, you seem determined to redefine it for your own narrative so I guess nobody should stand in your way.

No point. Keep schtum and be more careful next time.

No don’t tell her, but you’re not a vegan and DH is not veggie, you just don’t regularly eat meat or animal products. I vary rarely will eat meat and very little dairy etc but don’t scan ingredients list, im not vegetarian nor vegan just don’t eat many animal products.

Be careful what you put in things too,that fish sauce would have made my DH v ill

@MaximusHeadroom but if you were to refer to him conversationally as a breakfast vegan, I'm sure we'd all know what you mean.
(although some of the militant vegans would wade in to correct you, and ignore anything to do with the thread)

And more importantly, if you were to refer to your DH as a breakfast vegan....most people wouldn’t care!

If ever anyone needs a really concrete example of 'the perfect is the enemy of the good' then this thread is it. Yes, I used the word vegan - I qualified it with 'relaxed' and specified exactly how and why as well as why it's still important to me, personally, to be to be aligned with the philosophy. I also explained that I'm not flashing it as a personal label in my actual life but that it does describe the food (and, I should add, the personal grooming products, and clothes, and shoes, and craft materials) that I spend my own money on. I think the word 'vegan' just gets people het up. It's like cycling, but for food.

Can I recommend that the arguers (and this includes me) take the energy you've expended here and transfer it to something useful? Before I go, if you've ever considered eating/using fewer animal products and you have any questions or want any recipe ideas or meal plans, I'm a really keen cook and home-entertainer plus I'm a whiz at finding animal-free products of all sorts and I'm open for a chat if you want to send me a PM :)

I’m sorry op but that really made me laugh!

Cooking tips for hosting vegans ‘just feed them animal products and don’t tell them’

I think anyone who takes steps towards living a totally vegan lifestyle is doing well and should be encouraged to stay on that path. I'm a vegan and I've had a couple of slip-ups (didn't know there was cheese in something, ordered something a bit wrong when abroad and didn't know the language) but I would still call myself a vegan, because that's what I'm striving to be.

Most vegans are just doodling along doing their own thing - it's the ranty holier-than-thou ones that give the rest of us a bad name.

I'm a vegan and I've had a couple of slip-ups (didn't know there was cheese in something, ordered something a bit wrong when abroad and didn't know the language)

But that’s totally different to what the OP does, she knowingly and intentionally eats animal products.

I don’t know a single vegan who hasn’t slipped up by accident or even fallen off the wagon.

But there’s a difference between trying your best in a non vegan world and eating animal products if the rest of your family are.

How is ‘falling off the wagon’ different? If people have done that and still call themselves vegan I see no difference at all.

I also don’t understand how you can be a committed vegan and not check the food you’re eating. Unless someone deliberately sabotages your food I don’t see how that could happen.

OP I think you’ve remained remarkably good-humoured about the madness on this thread.

if you fall off the wagon you fall off but then recommit yourself to being fully vegan afterwards.

That’s a totally different thing to having loopholes that you will eat animal products in certain circumstances.

The word 'vegan' itself doesn't get people het up.

Using expressions like "militantly" vegan or "relaxed" vegan and "mostly" vegetarian just irritate people as they're incorrect, understandably so.

Perhaps I'm feeling tetchy today as I'm suffering from backache and morning sickness. Probably because I'm almost pregnant.

Cooking tips for hosting vegans ‘just feed them animal products and don’t tell them’

Just tell them you've redefined fish as a type of cashew nut. After all, language is flexible, and who really gets to decide what's included and what isn't?

People want the kudos but without the effort, thats what narks everyone. I see it everywhere. People who claim they are left wing, or their pet was rescued.

Furry. So no difference at all then. Both are deliberate choices to eat animal products and then a deliberate choice to revert to a vegan diet. But you’re ok with one calling themselves a vegan and not the other...

You can’t ‘accidentally’ eat an animal product. It’s either entirely deliberate or simply careless.

the 'relaxed' bit explained it perfectly. Why contest it? She does what she can, and if a friend mixes in cheese, she won't kick up a stink by refusing it. I commend her for going as far as she does, I'm far too weak willed to go vegan (even a relaxed one). The thing that may put me off going vegan, is all the vegans saying 'she's not a vegan, she's not a vegan'.

Of course there’s a difference.

It’s like the difference between a teetotaller falling off the wagon and having a drink but then starting again the next day determined never to drink again, and someone who has a drink at weddings but no other time.

And it’s very easy to accidentally eat animal products, OP’s friend has.

How is is ‘kicking up a stink’ to say ‘I’m sorry but I don’t eat cheese as I’m vegan. thank you so much for providing me with food but I’ll just not have that bit/eat at home’

Or even better, ‘before I come tonight I just want to let you know I’m vegan. Would you like me to bring my own food?’

The decision is still a deliberate one regardless of how quickly they decide to revert to former habits.

And I’d have no problem with both people in your scenario describing themselves as teetotal. Why would I? It’s up to then to decide how they want to describe themselves. Not me. Not you.

furry, that's more strawman stuff going on there, isn't it? You can see the point I'm making, but all you can focus on is the one detail on how the relaxed vegan would react in a fictional situation. It sounds like she's a vegan, but she's not going to go without birthday cake if it was made with an egg. I say well done her, she is so much more vegan than me, and I admire her for it.

I'm starting to sense protestors dressed as butchers with pig masks on, throwing fake blood around,

It sounds like she's a vegan, but she's not going to go without birthday cake if it was made with an egg.

But then she’s not vegan!!!!
Vegans don’t eat eggs.