... to not tell my militantly vegan friend she ate fish sauce?

[Snuffalo]

I am a relaxed vegan, as are one of my kids, the other kid and my partner are mostly vegetarian. Basically what that means for me is that I would never spend my own money on animal products, and I wouldn't use them in my own cooking, but if someone else prepares food for me or I'm a guest in someone's home I'll eat what's put in front of me, for the most part - I won't have a sausage or a burger at your barbecue, but I'll eat the pasta salad even if has cheese in it, and I'll have some of your birthday cake even if it's made with eggs.

Anyway, my friend Alice- who is a militant, rather than a relaxed, vegan

• was over and I heated up what I confidently thought to be vegan sweet potato and black bean chilli that my partner had made earlier in the week. I know the recipe backwards and forwards because one of us makes it at least once a month with zero animal products so I had no reason to suspect otherwise. I must say it was especially delicious this time - because, as it turns out, my partner added some fish sauce because he'd read somewhere that it's good in chilli. I didn't find out until today and now I'm wondering if I should tell Alice? I can't decide if, in her shoes, I would want to know or not. Would you?

It’s hardly being the ‘vegan police’ by pointing out that if you don’t try to eat a vegan diet 100% of the time then you’re not a vegan.

Every single vegan I know has occasionally slipped up or been in a situation where they have accidentally eaten something non vegan. Most vegans understand that we don’t live in a vegan world so it’s impossible to actually eat 100% vegan 100% of the time.
However it’s about intention, if you’re more than happy to eat eggs and dairy when offered them not in your home then you’re not vegan.

If you don't want dairy, eggs etc, then you have to say vegan.

But op doesn’t do this she just eats whatever is being offered.

Op is being considerate.

I also try to eat whatever I am offered when other people cook for me. I am quite fussy, but feel it is unfair to burden people with details of my preferences.

If I had a medical condition or was allergic, that would be totally different.

A relaxed vegan? ! Wtf. No.
You are a strict vegetarian maybe.

The OP is completely unbothered about her husband using fish sauce. That makes her not any kind of vegetarian. She's just someone who doesn't eat meat.

For the people at the back... vegetarians do not eat fish.

Sort if something significant has moved on in 13 pages, but I'd not tell her, and can you give me the recipe please?!

xxvagina it’s on Sunday at 19.03. Looks very nice!

It's the past. Don't worry about it now. You will be vilified

Oh, the chili sounds nice too. Please link to the recipe

This thread is why I wont describe myself as vegan any more. Its better if more people practiced relaxed vegetarianism and aimed for more plant based meals, than a few people achieve 100% veganism.

I've known vegans on the brink of a nervous breakdown because they've accidentally consumed animal products. Its creating some weird eating disorders.

Can I ask a question about eggs please?
My friend has free range hens, they roam over acres of private land, are allowed to grow old gracefully etc and are looked after and loved. Why is eating their eggs wrong to vegans?

I'm not goady, just genuinely interested.

if meat eaters didn't exist there would be no organic fertiliser.....

Lol. I must remember that.

I also like something I was told by an environment and wildlife expert, namely that grazing by animals is essential to provide habitat for a lot of endangered species. (This was specifically in the context of a couple of rare orchids that survive well on the sheep-grazed south downs, but he also pointed that if it wasn't for sheep, places like the lake district and Yorkshire dales would quickly revert to scrubland).

Why is eating their eggs wrong to vegans?

Because they don’t belong us. If left alone the chickens would eat them themselves.

There are a number of greyer areas of veganism. Pet ownership is one of them. I have 2 rescue dogs who eat meat. I wouldn’t buy pets from a shop or breeder. Some vegans will only feed vegan food to their dogs/cats which causes arguments as cats are said to be obligate carnivores. I also feed my son vegetarian food at home and buy meat for him when out. He is 12.

The easy bit is deciding for yourself not to consume any animal products. That means products that come from animals I.e. Meat, fish, dairy, eggs, honey.

People who call themselves vegan also don’t buy clothing made from animals I.e wool, leather and avoid toiletries/cleaning products which are not vegan.

If you were going to call yourself a ‘relaxed vegan’ I would think maybe you didn’t do the extra vegan things like the cleaning products or wool but the food is non negotiable. If you choose to consume animal products you are not vegan.

Also will people stop making out that vegans are saying eating vegan food 95% of the time is a waste of time? No one is saying that. Eating vegan food 95% of the time is bloody fantastic! It doesn’t make you a vegan though.

On the subject of eggs, well they aren’t ours. The egg industry is cruel and male chick are usually killed at birth either in a macerater or by gassing. Females have been bred to lay more eggs than they would naturally which takes a toll on their bodies/health.

As for backyard hens, I would as a vegan love to rescue hens. I wouldn’t eat their eggs. I would let the hens have them or give them to people who buy eggs to reduce the amount of commercial ones they buy.

FFS, the elitism of the vegans on this thread is unbelievable!

It's a diet, not a medical condition. The OP admitted in the very beginning that her approach was to follow a 'mostly' vegan diet. That's fucking admirable.

Your approach of finger-pointing and wailing 'Not vegan! Not vegan!' really puts me off following the same lifestyle, which is a shame because it's one I think is achievable for many.

Would it be elitism if a teetoler pointed out that if you occasionally have a glass of champagne at weddings or sherry if you were offered at a funeral then you aren’t teetotal.

But the OP described herself as a relaxed vegan and her friend as a militant vegan. I personally don't think a vegan who refuses to consume animal products at all is a militant vegan; I think they're just a vegan.

And a lot of the people disagreeing with the OP's terminology aren't actually vegan themselves.

I wouldn't tell her. It's a bit unkind calling her a 'militant' (bad) vegan and yourself a 'relaxed' (good) vegan. The real difference is she follows the vegan lifestyle and therefore is a vegan and you only follow the vegan diet sometimes and therefore aren't.

Goodness, vegans are a fun lot, aren’t they?

On the terminology front, I think it is important to be clear. Not to create an exclusive cult but so that misunderstandings don't happen.

Vegetarian: doesn't eat meat or fish or products derived from meat or fish.

Vegan: doesn't eat any products from animals, including eggs, dairy and honey.

I am vegan. So if I tell someone, they know what I do and don't eat.

If these definitions aren't clear, they become useless. People will be served food they won't eat because someone else says they are vegan but eats sausages sometimes.

If you regularly eat animal products outside of the home, you aren't vegan. There is no judgement but you aren't.

I don't agree with the religious analogies as there are not such defined criteria to be in a religion.

I would like to know from the OP why you want to identify as vegan? Again, no judgement at all but you clearly don't mind eating meat products on occasion so I wonder why it is important to you to call yourself a vegan?

Oh and don't tell her. It would be unkind.

@quizzlybear - the fact that some people have just reasonably pointed out that it wasn't fair to call the friend a 'militant' vegan because she stuck to the vegan lifestyle is hardly elitism! It also doesn't mean it isn't commendable to follow a veggie/vegan diet. And what makes you think all of us are vegans? I'm not. And this would make you not want to become a vegan?? Sod the animals! Some people on Mumsnet pointed out where an OP was being a bit unkind and clarified what veganism was! I can't possibly become a vegan now!

This kind of always looking for something to snipe at vegans about and then telling them you would have become vegan if they hadn't done xyz must be very tiresome for vegans.

This is why veganuary is a load of wankery. Loads of people rushing off to buy processed crap, made to look the very stuff they are so bravely giving up for a month, before returning to normal life.

This. Is there anything more antithetical to veganism than persuading everyone to reduce their meat consumption?

And a lot of the people disagreeing with the OP's terminology aren't actually vegan themselves.

I'm pescetarian. I'd quite happily eat the recipe the OP posted with or without the fish sauce. I've cut down on the amount of fish I eat for ecological reasons but I still eat it occasionally. My objection to the OP saying she's a relaxed vegan is nothing to do with her food choices, which are up to her, but to do with her confusing the issue and making it difficult for others. Her calling her friend "militant" for no other reason than that she tries to stick to the diet 100% of the time strikes me as ill-advised, if not outright goady.

Eat what you bloody like but at least use labels clearly so that it's easier for everyone to understand. I've gone through periods of being vegetarian and it's always been assumed that I'll be OK with fish, chicken and meat stock. No, I won't be. None of these things are vegetarian foods.

Some vegans will only feed vegan food to their dogs/cats - FYI those people are called animal abusers...