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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

What would you do?

98 replies

giantnannyknickers · 12/06/2019 14:01

Ex has decided to stop paying maintenance for his kids. We have a maintenance agreement so he's legally bound so I'm forced to yet again take legal action against him. Would you stop him from seeing the kids as a result? My gut is telling me this only hurts the kids. So I haven't actually done this.

But He's also stopped picking them up which means I've a 30 minute round trip to facilitate visitation. It's shitting me that he's not paying anything, it's costing me money on petrol and he's still getting to play happy families with the kids despite his actions.

What would you do?

OP posts:
Original poster
giantnannyknickers · 14/06/2019 19:08

The problem is he is coming to collect them, just refusing to return them. So I've to make a 30 min round trip to pick them up from his.

OP posts:
pinkandsparkles · 14/06/2019 19:29

You are strong but won't see it right now.

Therapy and the Freedom Programme are two separate things and I really feel it will help you in ways you never thought possible.

Have a look at Living with the Dominator: A Book About the Freedom Programme: 1 www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0955882702/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_Fl-aDbP2K7V0H?tag=mumsnetforu03-21. In case the link doesn't work the book is called Living With The Dominator. It covers all that is discussed in the Freedom Programme. I do recommend actually doing the course if you can though as it has a profound powerful impact just being there interacting with others. You say as much or as little as you want but as the previous poster has said, you don't discuss your life. It is not like a group meeting where you say hi my name is x and this is what has happened. There is a facilitator who leads. It's confidential and you're in a safe space and there will always be support there if you need to speak with someone before, during or after. It's a really simple concept but it works and is empowering. Being able to understand the tactics that are used and why (all for power and control) and the impact it has on you, your children, family, friends, work etc really does help you see him/the abuser for what he is. Once you have that understanding it really helps to take back that power. Repeating what previous poster has said but just wanted to reiterate!

Forgottenwhatsleepis · 14/06/2019 19:57

That's the domestic abuse services offered by citizens advice- the Freedom Programme! I couldn't remember the name of it earlier!

RandomMess · 14/06/2019 20:29

He's refusing to return them just to control you!! After a few days he won't want them anymore...

Original poster
giantnannyknickers · 14/06/2019 21:30

@RandomMess I'm scared he would keep them forever. I'm scared that's his ultimate goal, to take the kids off me full time: and then he can show everyone what a great dad he is.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 14/06/2019 21:38

So you really think him and DF want to give up their childfree time to be full time parents? Bearing in mind they can't stop the DC contact with you and you can insist on first refusal of care so he can't outsource it all to a nanny?

It sounds like power games nothing more, nothing less...

Chesntoots · 14/06/2019 21:50

They always use keeping the kids as a threat - and they always get fed up and hand them back!!!

After all, sleepless nights and nappies would rather spoil his carefree fun with his new fiance!

I can imagine it being very stressful, but just leave them. They are not at school so it doesn't matter. They will be back on your doorstep pretty sharpish and he won't try that shit again.

Original poster
giantnannyknickers · 14/06/2019 22:09

@RandomMess I think he will stop at nothing to make everyone think he is the perfect parent & partner. His ego is his driving force. He has enough support at home to be able to mange the kids. His family are all under his thumb and seem to enable his self righteousness so I've no doubt leaving the kids with him would back fire and I would be the one who gets hurt. And yes it's all games with him, but I don't want to play.

I've just checked out that link and as I'm in Ireland I can only do the online form but I will register for that as it does seem to be eye opening already. I think I might also need to speak with a doctor about my anxiety, I just feel numb at the moment.

OP posts:
Original poster
giantnannyknickers · 14/06/2019 22:15

@Chesntoots I don't think I could. If I leave them then it's like I've given up.

OP posts:
Chesntoots · 14/06/2019 22:19

I know it's a scary thought, but I have personally seen it several times. It's a script and a way to control you.

If you don't make a stand this will be your life for close on another two decades. You will end up a shell of yourself, always fearful. He will get exactly what he wants happy in the knowledge he still controls you and you will be facilitating it.

That sounds harsh, but that's exactly how it will play out

pinkandsparkles · 14/06/2019 22:24

Where abouts in Ireland are you? Have you had a search of any local support services? I'm not sure on what is available there but there may be some there that run it but it just isn't noted on the official website. Our local service was like that for a while.

Original poster
giantnannyknickers · 15/06/2019 09:04

@Chesntoots if I make a stand things get worse, which is why this recent onslaught started as I wouldn't leave the kids go with his sister. They'd only met her once prior to him asking could she have them. So it was effectively like sending them off with a stranger and I wasn't comfortable with it. Since then he's been on a war path.

OP posts:
Original poster
giantnannyknickers · 15/06/2019 09:07

@pinkandsparkles I rang women's aid and didn't find them so helpful, but yesterday I rang a local domestic violence group in Munster and have a meeting with them next week.

He emailed yesterday saying "I'm not obliged to pay child support until I have a job again" but he has two businesses and two rental properties! I don't get it. How can he pretend he's broke.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 15/06/2019 09:14

If you know how the businesses are set up is it worth speaking to CMS? You may get less but it may be worth going down that route.

I you don't go through the pain of dealing with this your life will be at his beck and call for the next 20 years. Short term horrificness for long term resolution.

You can just say "as you refuse to return them to me and I cannot afford to collect them and have been bullied into it anyway then you force me with no alternative but to refuse contact until we have a court order" then go grey rock.

RandomMess · 15/06/2019 09:15

But stick to it don't let him have them because he will keep them just to hurt you. I assure you that he and his DF will not want them full time cramping their style, night wakings, crying for mummy etc etc.

RandomMess · 15/06/2019 09:18

Yes divorce settlement is separate to child maintenance. He is showing who is and always will be, if you are in the UK explore using CMS but depending on how he set up his businesses you may get nothing.

AppropriateAdult · 15/06/2019 09:23

OP, you have to take the legal route here. You can't negotiate with an abusive man. Document everything and get back to court. Have a look at the Legal Aid Board www.legalaidboard.ie/en/our-services/legal-aid-services/ and see if you might qualify for help - they have local offices all over the country.

Original poster
giantnannyknickers · 15/06/2019 09:25

@RandomMess what's he's done with the business is set his girlfriend up as a sole trader who "subcontracts" for our business. He is then filtering money through her accounts to diminish profits and to reduce any potential earnings he may have. He has also set up a new business 50/50 with her, this hasn't gone live yet and I suspect they will wait until new child support agreements are in place before they launch that properly.

We got our business valued a few months back as part of property settlement and he transferred assets out of his name and into hers the week before valuation. So the ultimate value of the business was minimal Confused he's just done everything he can financially to make sure the kids and I are struggling. Meanwhile he's out on court records his living expenses are 2k per week!!!

OP posts:
WishIwas19again · 15/06/2019 09:26

Can you apply back to court to vary the order? 4 times a week is a lot, could you evidence that the cost is no longer affordable because of no maintenance and ask for either less visits or longer visits so it's only one drop/pick per week?

AppropriateAdult · 15/06/2019 09:27

Also the Free Legal Advice Centres www.flac.ie/help/ offer basic legal advice to everyone regardless of income.

Original poster
giantnannyknickers · 15/06/2019 09:29

Thanks @AppropriateAdult I just applied for legal aid yesterday. And I've to meet with Flac next week.

Social welfare have requested copies of all his emails. I also have copies of all his recent bank statements from out court hearings so will provide those too. I'd love to know if he's claiming unemployment benefits, if not then they'll ask how he can afford to support himself financially.

OP posts:
AppropriateAdult · 15/06/2019 10:15

Super, knickers, well done. Keep focused on the process and try to ignore the mind games.

hazell42 · 15/06/2019 11:44

I feel your pain.
I spent 10 years driving my kids back and forth to facilitate visitation and on the few times I couldnt, he cancelled seeing them.
Go back to court but dont stop the kids seeing him.
It will make you look bad with the court.
My kids have grown now and they remember the effort I put and the lack of effort he did.
Without me ever having to say a bad thing about him.
But dont let him get way with not paying either
Your kids are entitled to that money

pinkandsparkles · 15/06/2019 12:43

That's brilliant well done for doing that! It's a massive step to take even just picking up the phone to get that appointment. I hope you found them nice when you spoke with them and reassuring?

Sadly, they will do all they can to hide their earnings and there isn't always a way to catch them out. Yes you're entitled and yes you need to get looking at setting things up so it is all above board and what you are legally entitled to (not what he dictates he will or won't give) but... At the same time you need to try and change the mindset of getting money from him and see it that you're not going to get a thing right now. Anything you do get is an added bonus. Does that make sense? It's just that for as long as you're relying on him (rightfully so as they are his children!) and worrying what he will give or not, he has a hold over you. Otherwise you're going to drive yourself mad not being able to get it out of your head, feel angry, upset, anxious...the list goes on.There is no reasoning with people like him. It's all to exert his power and control end of. Does not matter who gets hurt in the process of this. I don't know your actual financial situation and I know that he should be paying but I am just looking at it in the sense of trying to relieve some of the psychological impact it is having. There's some things you can't control but then there are other things you can and it's just about trying to find those things, no matter how small. It will help you cope in the short term. Obviously you do need to be looking into how you will get the money from him but until/if that happens, your sanity is really important!

As I've said before and as others are doing, you need to seek legal advice. Hopefully when you have your meeting they will be able to provide assistance with all of this. They should able to provide evidence to legal aid to support that you are a victim of abuse too if you are being supported by them. It's great you're able to get some free legal advice too. See... Look how strong and assertive you are being. You've totally got this x

WhiteRedRose · 15/06/2019 12:45

When they get married her finances will also be taken in to account for cm, OP. Won't they?

I'd sop him personally. And tell him if he wants to see them he knows where they are. He is taking the royal piss.

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