To go completely NC with mum friend over her children/parenting?

[ConfusedButAngry]

How many of you have done this?

Seems a shame to lose the adult friendship (kids are 6 and met when they were newborns)

but for the 3rd time my child has now been hurt and scared by her kids, and she doesn't make any actions to try and stop it.

If I'm honest I think she's scared to parent them, I think it's gone on so long that they don't listen to her. I think maybe the eldest has issues, he's a very loud, aggressive, intimidating boy and if he gets told no he just smiles in your face and continues what he's doing, no remorse.

Tried to stamp on my DDs hand yesterday as she was climbing up a ladder to the top of a climbing frame (which he was only up in front of her as saw her climbing and pushed her out the way to climb up first)

Then prevented her going down the slide, then punched her. The sibling then prevented her getting down the ladder so she was in a full on panic.

She has been referred to CAHMS for her anxiety/panic attacks anyway so this of course upset her and me a lot.

I just had to leave the park, DD was upset, I was too upset/angry for her.

The apology I got as a text was "sorry your DD was upset by my DC" which I feel is a bit of a brush off. Of course she was fucking upset.

I just don't see how I move forward with this woman?

On one hand she I think she needs a LOT of help (she does have a DH at home and have a privileged lifestyle) but she won't admit there's a problem, or ask for any help and I can't put my child into those situations.

I just worry about the group as a whole if I go NC with her.

I guess I don't know what I'm asking, I'm just so upset for DD and also feel bad for my "friend" and can't shake or make sense of any of the feelings.

Honestly, they’re six. I think it’s as equally worrying you label her child as aggressive as you labelling your own as anxious and being referred to CAHMS already seems to me like you might be a little over-zealous in your own reactions to what others may consider normal stages of childhood development.
By all means back off from this parent, but please take a hard look at your own parenting and communication yourself.

Agree

I agree that a text along the lines of ‘ Thank, you’re right she was upset and very frightened’ is a good idea. And then don’t accept any more invitations that include her children.

I wouldn’t criticise her child or her parenting any further than that. You don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors in her house.

Isadora - I don't think a parent can refer their own child to CAHMS......the school SENCO had a meeting with us and explained that was the best option as my child was refusing to eat some days due to her anxiety. So stop the victim blaming please.

I will accept that of course her personality will have to do with our parenting. And in case I wasn't feeling guilty enough already then thanks for topping it up today.

Last time I checked punching/shoving/stamping on people is aggressive.

Isadora2007 a very unsupportive post.

She is not labelling her child. The OP has said "She has been referred to CAHMS for her anxiety/panic attacks anyway so this of course upset her and me a lot."

Having tried to get my child (now referred to CAMHS at 14) referred at 6, I can say that it is quite hard to get a child referred at 6, so there are presumably issues there. So undermining the OP's own parenting seems rather unhelpful to.

Plus we do not know this boy is 6, she said "I think maybe the eldest has issues..."

oopse ConfusedButAngry cross posted with you. I really do not think your parenting is to blame, children can have all kinds of issues not related to parenting.

oh, bog off Isadora.

OP, I agree that what S1naidSucks said is perfect. She needs to know because sooner or later her kid is going to come up against someone who is not going to take this as kindly as you are.

It would be the simplest, kindest and easiest solution to thank her for her ‘apology’

Yes my daughter really was hurt by Tommy’s aggression in the park and is now even more scared of him. She could see that I only just managed to stop him deliberately stomping on her fingers and felt trapped in a vulnerable position. She doesn’t want to play with him again and I find that understandable as I’m sure you will too.
Maybe the day will come that she can be reassured that he won’t continue to bully her?
Thanks, I appreciate your making contact over it.

I texted back last night with "I appreciate your apology. dd was very upset"

No reply, and it's hanging over me that she's probably upset as normally I'm the sort to do an "it's ok hun, they all have bad days" type reply.

But then I'd have laid awake disappointed in myself that I put someone's feelings above my own child's just to try and ensure I've not upset someone.

And if I can't be her support then who will?

@LAMPS1 that's a fabulous reply.

Not sure I'm confident enough to say it at the moment, but should this go further or she asks about it then I will certainly use parts of it, thank you.

I would back right off too.
If you have a decent friendship with her apart from the children, then I would maybe meet her for coffee if you want to - but only without the DC.

I would also tell her that your DD is not going to be playing with her DC any longer as she doesn't seem able to control their aggressive behaviour and you won't be putting your DD in harm's way by making her play with them.

If she doesn't like it, tough nuts.

I've had similar situations with friends - turns out that their DC most often had SN, apart from one - but the difference with all of my friends is that they KNEW their DC were risky, and took steps themselves to protect other DC. Of course ours still occasionally got hurt, but my friends were always hugely apologetic about it. Because of this, and their proactive behaviour in trying to keep their DC from hurting anyone else, we all stayed friends.

In your case though, your "friend" isn't doing that, so I agree you should probably cut contact except when it's unavoidable.

Sorry to sound stupid, but what does 'NC' mean?
Sorry this has happened to you OP.

There a kid round here who's like this. Never happy unless he's beating on younger kids, throwing their belongings over walls and fences, or (as of last night when I had to go out and stop him) pelting a young random child with rocks etc. He sticks fingers up at adults who have made complaints about him. He makes up lies. The belter was when he ran his bike into and badly damaged my neighbour's car. He went home and told his mum it was neighbour's son. The mum contacted the car owner and told him what his kid had done. Neighbour called BS as his DS was actually away all week. Even finding out her son lied, she told the neighbour HE was wrong. As if he had mistaken his child not being on holiday?

Devil child would stick fingers up at people going to her door to try and sort an issue out with him and his behaviour. My friend actually said to her, "He's sticking his fingers up at me, right now, Behind your back!" And the mother just said, "No he isn't." She point blank refused to hear a bad word about him, even when she SAW him doing something.
Crazy.

Some people are just shit at parenting. I now have no hesitation in calling out this behaviour to the parents but I actually prefer to just get on with giving a major bollocking the kid myself. Right in front of the mum if need be. Someone has to and if she doesn't like it she should have done it herself.

But you have supported your child by taking her away from the other child.

What you put in a message is between the adults.

@Mitzicoco NC is No Contact

The thing is OP, is she really your friend?

Because a real friend as long as that wouldn't allow your child to be hurt.
Your poor little pet.

Honestly, most children not suffering from any anxiety issues would be appalled by that behaviour. I certainly have never come across anything like that.

So when you have decided if she's a friend you'd really like to keep (I think her text to you was off, very passive aggressive) then let that frame any text you wish to send.

I think the text examples given above are very good.

Oh and for what it's worth I would definitely not hesitate to call the boy out to your daughter as being a very mean horrible boy that she does not have to see again.

I don't believe it's helpful to children to brush things like this off be it an adult or a child. Some people are not nice and are to be avoided. Children get reassurance I believe when you call out bad behaviour as it helps them form standards/boundaries themselves.

Best of luck.

I'd go NC with her but be prepared for passive aggressive FB posts from her.

I have a friend with boys like your friend's son, and she spends a lot of her life putting PA posts on FB about how her children are spirited and will grow up to be strong adults, and how everyone else babies their children, and why the fuck does everyone hate her family and make comments to them when they're out and about.

She genuinely has no insight into the fact that they need actual parenting from their parents.

Confused. I think your text was good and also kept it low key but if she mentions the matter again ( and I'm betting that she thinks it's all done and dusted and she's dealt with it) then be I'd want to be blunt and say, they have repeatedly hurt my daughter for no reason and I'm not putting her in that situation again.
It really depends how involved you are with this family, if the DCs are at the same schools or have the same friends.
I think if this is someone you have to see now and then it may be better to just disengage quietly. But I'd reconsider the friendship. How would your DD feel about you hanging out with her?

I would go totally NC. This is not a toddler testing boundaries and whatever issues the other child might have, her mother does not parent and is not addressing his behaviour. Your loyalty needs to be with your child and she needs to see that you will keep her safe. Personally, I would not bother with any response or message. It is bloody obvious that this boy is terrorising your DD and this woman needs to realise that her lack of dealing with this aggressive behaviour has consequences. Am a bit sick of all the virtue signalling trying to always excuse and minimise the actions of an aggressive bullying child. Whatever the circumstances, it is for his parent to deal with, instead of inconsequential and wishy-washy, oveer-indulgent interactions. At his age, he can still be a bit easier managed but if that boy is not given any boundaries and allowed to get away with it, eventually he will turn into a teenager that may terrorise and scare everyone around him. But none of that is the responsibility of the parents of whose children get hurt! That boy is not the victim in this story and should therefore not be the centre of everyone’s concern. It’s about time, we focus on those that get victimised and make them feel they matter. This starts with a parent removing such a threatening and aggressive presence from their kids' lives and not pandering to feckless parents.

My DC brought several children home from school over the years whose behaviour was a bit troublesome. I always tolerated something once, second time I gave a clear "we do not behave like that in this house" and third strike was out.

If your friend is choosing not to guide her kids in the right direction, their behaviour will only worsen sadly. Time for NC but I'd bow out discreetly rather than making a point as she's probably not going to listen to it anyway.

I am saddened by the number of posters who come out of the woodwork to cast blame on anyone who criticises another’s lack of adequate parenting. This little boy by his demeanour is challenging any adult who attempts to check his behaviour.
Normal boisterous behaviour should not include trying to hurt another child who has not entered into rough play. Blocking the OP’s DD is bullying behaviour. I fail to see how these behaviours can be seen to be as “normal” and as of no concern, especially since they have occurred under the noses of the supervising adults.
How is this little boy going to learn to empathise with others if he is not taught by example, if his aggressive behaviour is not checked?

Your text was fine.....you didnt actually blame her child directly...
Just stay clear..
If you do bump into them at teh park you etc you will just have to be hypervigilant and stick with your daughter .....so if she wants a quick swing then so be it...
if shes going up the slide just stop him -as in physically stand on from of him...imagine you are her bodyguard..
If he's on it then wait for him to get off whilst doing something else...

just because she wont do anything doesnt mean you have to- itll probably be good for your DD to see you being in control of the situation and not scared of what they think/do...

maybe always have it - oh we're just popping for a short time - of now...you must not let fear of embarrassment or feeling sorry for her override your DD protection...

I went through a similar experience. Most mums probably have. Lovely friend, but son was an absolute little shite. She seemed to see parenting and her son as some sort of interesting psychological experiment (freedom to make own choices etc). I taught my son to man up a bit and defend himself. That helped a bit. Eventually we put a little distance between them. Her son was OK with some of my friends kids, but picked on my son. Some kids just don't get along. My friend had told others in our not group how awkward it was as he kept picking on my son. It caused her stress too. Now we meet up without the kids occasionally. Chat to her about it and perhaps suggest a cuppa without the kids sometime.

I agree it was an excellent response. Now leave it up to her. And stick to keeping your DD away from him. They are not a good mix.

Great response, OP. It's v. tricky and I've had a similar experience with a friend whose DS was aggressive and once threatened both DS and I with a baseball bat.

It took a lot of pushing from both friends and teachers to get her to accept that his behaviour was outside the norm...finally he was properly assessed and was diagnosed with SN (I'm not sure of the exact diagnosis as she finds it hard to discuss) and is on medication. His behaviour has improved enormously and he has healthy friendships now.

I didn't go NC as I knew she was struggling, but I made it clear that the DC couldn't play together. We still meet up for coffee/drinks and I know mutual friends also keep their DC away from hers.