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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do I buy what she wants or just what she needs

103 replies

expat101 · 11/06/2019 03:26

Looking for suggestions, please. In May Mum weighed in at over 108 kilos and is 6 foot tall.

My Father died nearly 5 years ago, and since then, Mum has gone from using a walker to deciding she cannot walk so relies on a wheelchair. This was supplied by a rehab hospital after a fall to assist with her fear of falling.

Mum was diagnosed with dementia not long after Dad died (I'm aware he ended up being her carer) and he put into place with Mum's Doctor for the testing to occur if he didn't pull through an operation. However, it's not taking the ''normal'' path of forgetfulness, rather she goes through angry, lying, and abusive cycles coupled with periods of calm and pleasantness. If she doesn't get her own way, she becomes nasty, whether that is directed at me or nursing staff.

Because of her confinement to the wheelchair, she now lives in a private hospital. The staff are fantastic and the care is 2nd to none.

The staff have to use a large hoist which isn't the small lightweight frame type, but rather similar to a small bulky crane, to get Mum on and off the toilet (extra high chair already in place) and out of bed.

After the big weigh-in, I received a text from the hospital advising there was to be no more biscuits and chocolates, which I buy each week along with additional fruit and personal needs.

Mum claims she isn't eating dessert now (although was on the warpath when pavlova didn't make an appearance one meal time recently).

At the beginning of June, her monthly weigh-in was just under 108, so good news there however she has started to ask for biscuits again and now has decided she wants a bottle of sherry for happy hour glass.

Mum had a dietician visit her last year, however, she tells me she can eat whatever she wants, the hospital does not stop her.

I have refused to buy any more biscuits unless its a special occasion like Mothers Day and the sherry until the Doctor/hospital confirms that it is ok. Of course, their ok hasn't come through so Mum retaliates by saying she will go and get drunk on their horrible wine instead... (it's like negotiating with an under 5-year-old terrorist).

I have emailed the Senior medical officer which has been acknowledged asking for direction but she hasn't responded in full. I know they have other issues on hand than worry about this sort of carrying on, but it doesn't resolve the issue with Mum.

My family say I should buy all the chocolates, biscuits and sherry she wants and let her go to it. One of her Brothers is upset that she will do nothing to get back into some sort of shape, even if only to move on and off the toilet unassisted.

Mum is quick to email newspapers when she is one of her angry cycles and her emails do get published. I have a fear that one day she will go too far and be expelled from the private hospital where she lives.

The computer is the only form of communication she has with her family and I'm loathed to take it from her. She relies on it very much, reading overseas newspapers, links to articles my Uncles have sent her, seeing family photos roll around on screen saver etc. Once a month I have to fiddle with it to get it up and running again as she will crash or lose a programme.

I have had the mental health team visit her more than once, and her Doctor has her mental state re-assessed annually which shows further deterioration.

So that is my predicament. Do I buy the biscuits, chocolates and sherry or try to enforce a stricter reduced calorie diet even though she can eat what she likes at the hospital (I think they let her go for it in the name of less arguing and upset).

Thanks for taking the time to read... and sorry to off load.

OP posts:
Birdie6 · 11/06/2019 03:47

she can eat what she likes at the hospital

That may be so, but she wouldn't have access to boxes of chocolates and biscuits.

If the hospital is asking you not to bring those things in, I'd do what they ask. They are having to use a hoist to move her now - if she keeps getting heavier she'll be very hard to care for .You don't want to make life more difficult for her carers.

I'd ignore your family's ideas of "letting her have what she wants" - they are not looking after her so their opinions should be ignored.

Regarding her emails to the papers, maybe you could protect her from herself .....contact the papers she writes to, and tell them that she is mentally ill and that they should not publish her letters since she has dementia. I'm sure they would be happy to take heed of your warning.

Orchidoptic · 11/06/2019 03:58

The problem with dementia is that it takes many forms. If the doctor is happy with the diagnosis there is a reason for it.

Please don’t let your Mum guilt trip you into breaking the hospital rules. They will be used to elderly people who are angry but it is not fair to expect them to deal with your Mum getting heavier.

Purpleartichoke · 11/06/2019 04:00

When I am 80 and facing alzheimer’s like so many in my family, I want a home with an unlimited supply of good liquor, bacon, and chocolate.

Sobeyondthehills · 11/06/2019 04:14

I would have another conversation with the staff that deal with her, or the matron/sister/manager

Personally I wouldn't bring in anything other than things they suggest

Meccacos · 11/06/2019 04:29

Over 100kg is huge. I feel sorry for the nurses and care assistance workers who need to hoist her every time she needs to use the toilet.

I’m sorry you’re going through this.

If she’s nasty, there’s no way I would buy her any biscuits or chocolates. And if she has the mental facilities to use her computer and write scathing articles to the local newspaper it is quite possible she’s putting it on for the doctors and exaggerating her symptoms.

Dementia usually causes old people to waste away because they forget to eat and drink. At over 100kg clearly this isn’t a problem.

CreakingKnees · 11/06/2019 04:35

Hi OP.
There is no reason why she can't have the things that she enjoys in moderation, including sherry, she is drinking the hospital wine after all. Speak to the staff regarding her having a small glass of sherry and say two biscuits and a little chocolate each day, it can be spread out over the course of the day. Example, two biscuits with her morning drink, a little chocolate in the afternoon and her glass of sherry in the evening. That way her needs will be met without the danger of her becoming overweight.
It's unfair to deny her what she enjoys.
My D.I.L is 96 and in a home due to frail mobility.We take him whisky of which he has a couple of tipples daily. Who are we to deny him that at his age. It's something he has always enjoyed so we let him enjoy it.
Hope all goes well with your mum.

Orangeballon · 11/06/2019 04:36

If I got so big that a hoist was required to help me to the toilet I would hope sensible people would help me to reduce weight by not buying me biscuits and chocolates. Be reasonable unless you are prepared to look after her yourself.

AgentJohnson · 11/06/2019 04:48

It's something he has always enjoyed so we let him enjoy it.

Did you miss the bit about her size!

spellingtest · 11/06/2019 04:49

I agree with @CreakingKnees suggestions

Starface · 11/06/2019 04:53

Re the hospital allowing her to eat as she likes, it will partly be an issue about capacity, consent and abuse of power. Essentially they cannot literally deny her food and control it in that way, as that is denying her freedom (including the freedom to make a bad or unhealthy or unhelpful decision). People do stuff all the time against medical advice. They can try persuade her, and could potentially be cleverer with what/how they offer food, but they mustn't stray into abusive territory. So that is why they aren't being as controlling as you might like. This is all legally enshrined so they really can't break this position btw.

However, equally, you don't have to do as she says. You have to make your own value judgement about whether it is more important to get her weight under control or allow her immediate pleasure in these last few years. Maybe you could think about which would most improve her quality of life in order to help you decide. Also how that will impact your relationship dynamic. No one (family, hospital or us) can make that for you. There also isn't a clear right or wrong here. You just need to make your mind up and stick with it, knowing you are doing your best (so don't regret it if you did your best).

Whilst the hospital has to avoid abusiveness, you can just stop bringing things in and then she won't be able to eat them. She can't force you to. You have to set your boundaries and brush it off with a polite but consistent "now now mum, only special occasions, you know this, doctors orders". Just like she can't force you bring her drugs or something. The hospital has a different power relationship with her which is why they can't do this in the same way you can, and it also depends a bit on their food delivery system.

The computer is a different issue. You can discuss your concerns with the hospital if you worry her placement is in danger. Does she have a named nurse or someone you can build a good working relationship with? I would have thought you should be clear with them this is not how she was, and it should therefore be seen as symptomatic. That way it is framed for them to be understanding about it. Interesting idea from pp to contact the paper. Personally I would leave the computer with her - the social access sounds hugely important.

CreakingKnees · 11/06/2019 05:00

No @AgentJohnson. Which is why I said in moderation. A little each day should be fine.
My D.I.L was getting through two bottles of whisky per day ending up extremely drunk and harming himself due to falling about when he lived alone, since he now lives in a home we have moderated it to a couple of glasses daily. He feels happy with that and doesn't feel deprived.
Can you imagine being completely denied something that you have always enjoyed due to circumstances beyond your control and everyone doing what they think is best instead?
Her mum's weight can be successfully controlled with the inclusion of the items that she wants.

Passthecherrycoke · 11/06/2019 05:01

To be honest, at 100kgs with no real exercise it’s hard to see how a weekly pack
Of biscuits are going to make any difference and I wonder if it’s worth the stress this particular worry is causing you?

What I did think was concerning is emailing the papers. Is it a known paper (ie loca?) if so could you email them explaining she is not medically well and her letters shouldnt be published? I’d be worried that a person with dementia could potentially say, well, anything and end up getting it published at face value.

HennyPennyHorror · 11/06/2019 05:02

Something just seems wrong about not letting a grown woman have some biscuits.

I know she has to watch her weight but to take away ALL her personal treats seems really wrong.

HennyPennyHorror · 11/06/2019 05:04

I remember our old neighbour. She was 85 and fit but then she had a fall and was very nervous plus didn't recover well from her injuries and her son...the bastard...began to refuse to get her cigarettes for her "because they'll kill her"

SHE'S 85! Not the same as your Mum as this lady had full mental capacity but how dare he!? Not his choice.

My Mum used to get them for her in the end after she rang us in tears.

SherlockSays · 11/06/2019 05:25

100kg isn't THAT heavy.. I weighed in at 117kg in the day I gave birth to DD. I was horrified (and now down to a sensible weight) but for someone who will spend her days in bed or in a chair its probably not that uncommon, especially when she's 6ft. Does she really need the hoist?

Does she not help in anyway to get on/off the toilet - what happens when she wants to get in/out of bed or a chair? It is hard to move someone who doesn't help themselves - DH's nanna is the same, she's actually tiny but trying to lift her is damn near impossible as she can't put her own strength into it.

BlackCatSleeping · 11/06/2019 05:27

108 kg at 6 ft tall isn't that much overweight. It's not her fault she is so tall.

I would try and find a compromise where she can have a little of what she wants.

BlackCatSleeping · 11/06/2019 05:28

Crossed posts with Sherlock says

snitzelvoncrumb · 11/06/2019 05:32

You need to be careful giving her biscuits and chocolate, if she gets too big the staff won't be able to lift her, even with the assistance of the machine. This will mean being moved to another facility, or being restricted to being in bed. I would just bring treats occasionally, and only a small package. With the computer can you put restrictions on that so she can't email or access certain sites?

WhoKnewBeefStew · 11/06/2019 05:37

So sorry to hear this OP, my Mum passed away this year from dementia and it’s a horrid disease Flowers

I wouldn’t give in to her demands for sweets and chocolates, keep them to special occasions, if she gains more weight you may find the nursing home won’t be able to continue to care for her (she’ll need more specialised equipment)

My grandad also had dementia and used to tell people the nursing home had kidnapped him, he’d ring the police, write signs to stick on the windows, so I wouldn’t worry too much about her being vindictive with her writing as the home will have dealt with this sort of behaviour before

Di11y · 11/06/2019 05:40

I think it's an abuse of power to refuse her biscuits and chocolates. it doesn't have to be lots. you can get those catering packs where the biscuits are packaged in twos.

Butteredghost · 11/06/2019 05:48

108 kg at 6 ft tall isn't that much overweight. It's not her fault she is so tall.

This is true. It's a bmi of 32 which is obese but not extremely so. I'm suprised they are that concerned about her weight. I work with older people as well and honestly 7/10 of them are this size (and I'm not critisizing as my own bmi is 30).

OP you have been a bit mislead by them I think. The way you describe the hoist, for example, saying they have to use a special "bulky crane type" one. There is no hoist out there that has a weight limit of under 100kg (there would be simply no market for such a product). Normal hoists lift 120-150 kg. Special bariatric ones lift up to 250kg or more. So she doesn't need a special hoist - no where near.

AgentJohnson · 11/06/2019 06:02

@CreakingKnees the Op’s mother is sedentary, her ‘moderation’ is being taken care of by the hospital. Anything the OP brings in will tip her over moderate.

As for the poster saying 108 kg isn’t that bad and a hoist isn’t necessary, there’s a difference in carrying that weight and lifting it.

reefedsail · 11/06/2019 06:24

Meccacos either you have been fortunate not to have a close up view of dementia, or anyone you do know has had a very gentle decline into the disease.

Unfortunately some people with dementia suffer severe personality change and can develop behaviour which is extremely challenging to others. A little more knowledge wouldn't go amiss if you are going to choose to post.

Fairymad · 11/06/2019 06:37

Depending on the type/variation of dementia (as it presents differently in everyone) the hospital may have found that the ops mother forgets that she has eaten rather than forgetting to eat.
I work on a hospital ward with dementia patients and not one is the same as another in how the disease presents although a common thing is the inhibitions that you would normally find are reduced or absent hence mood swings.
Have they tried physio to increase mobility?

Mummyoflittledragon · 11/06/2019 06:43

Do you have time to make her some healthier biscuits or cakes using reduced sugar or stevia? Maybe you could bring one or two each time you see her and freeze the rest. There are online recipes for banana / courgette type cake and biscuits containing stevia / xylitol etc. Perhaps that could be a compromise. Or just a biscuit when you visit.

I would try to find a compromise by adhering to the hospitals instructions for the most part whilst also appeasing your mum. I think the advice to contact the paper she writes to is very wise.