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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do I buy what she wants or just what she needs

103 replies

expat101 · 11/06/2019 03:26

Looking for suggestions, please. In May Mum weighed in at over 108 kilos and is 6 foot tall.

My Father died nearly 5 years ago, and since then, Mum has gone from using a walker to deciding she cannot walk so relies on a wheelchair. This was supplied by a rehab hospital after a fall to assist with her fear of falling.

Mum was diagnosed with dementia not long after Dad died (I'm aware he ended up being her carer) and he put into place with Mum's Doctor for the testing to occur if he didn't pull through an operation. However, it's not taking the ''normal'' path of forgetfulness, rather she goes through angry, lying, and abusive cycles coupled with periods of calm and pleasantness. If she doesn't get her own way, she becomes nasty, whether that is directed at me or nursing staff.

Because of her confinement to the wheelchair, she now lives in a private hospital. The staff are fantastic and the care is 2nd to none.

The staff have to use a large hoist which isn't the small lightweight frame type, but rather similar to a small bulky crane, to get Mum on and off the toilet (extra high chair already in place) and out of bed.

After the big weigh-in, I received a text from the hospital advising there was to be no more biscuits and chocolates, which I buy each week along with additional fruit and personal needs.

Mum claims she isn't eating dessert now (although was on the warpath when pavlova didn't make an appearance one meal time recently).

At the beginning of June, her monthly weigh-in was just under 108, so good news there however she has started to ask for biscuits again and now has decided she wants a bottle of sherry for happy hour glass.

Mum had a dietician visit her last year, however, she tells me she can eat whatever she wants, the hospital does not stop her.

I have refused to buy any more biscuits unless its a special occasion like Mothers Day and the sherry until the Doctor/hospital confirms that it is ok. Of course, their ok hasn't come through so Mum retaliates by saying she will go and get drunk on their horrible wine instead... (it's like negotiating with an under 5-year-old terrorist).

I have emailed the Senior medical officer which has been acknowledged asking for direction but she hasn't responded in full. I know they have other issues on hand than worry about this sort of carrying on, but it doesn't resolve the issue with Mum.

My family say I should buy all the chocolates, biscuits and sherry she wants and let her go to it. One of her Brothers is upset that she will do nothing to get back into some sort of shape, even if only to move on and off the toilet unassisted.

Mum is quick to email newspapers when she is one of her angry cycles and her emails do get published. I have a fear that one day she will go too far and be expelled from the private hospital where she lives.

The computer is the only form of communication she has with her family and I'm loathed to take it from her. She relies on it very much, reading overseas newspapers, links to articles my Uncles have sent her, seeing family photos roll around on screen saver etc. Once a month I have to fiddle with it to get it up and running again as she will crash or lose a programme.

I have had the mental health team visit her more than once, and her Doctor has her mental state re-assessed annually which shows further deterioration.

So that is my predicament. Do I buy the biscuits, chocolates and sherry or try to enforce a stricter reduced calorie diet even though she can eat what she likes at the hospital (I think they let her go for it in the name of less arguing and upset).

Thanks for taking the time to read... and sorry to off load.

OP posts:
ComeAndDance · 11/06/2019 07:56

mother that’s their job though.
When she came in, she was already overweight. They accepted her with her limitations and that includes needing a hoist.
If they had issues with dealing with overweight people with limited mobility then they should have said so.
Same with dealing with people with dementia who get angry etc....

I get that they want to make their life easier. But that's not what the OP is paying top money for.

RB68 · 11/06/2019 07:58

They will be concerned abut weight as above certain weight need even more specialist equipment etc.

I would go in and look at her diet as a whole and maybe say look what she wants is a bisuit with her tea in the afternoon and a sherry before dinner

Its not an unreasonable ask and you can choose sensible biccies rather that the triple choc cookies or similar - or limit her to the little catering packs so 2 or 3 biscuits rather than half a pack. Sherry can you get one portion bottles in sherry - you can try. I suspect its more she is doing no exercise and not being encouraged to walk either as that is easier for the hospital. It takes time and patience to get Dementia patients moving as you have said they can be like naughty toddlers. You say its not following the normal path but it sounds all too familiar to me who had a highly intelligent mother who now has moderate dementia and is running us in circles. Regarding the laptop you need to put some protection on it to limit what she can do and what she can get to re web etc like you would a child. She is a vulnerable adult she needs to be protected but at the same time you need to make sure her voice is heard. Nothing more frustrating than been forced to diet when you can't move about etc yourself. Suprised she hasn't discovered online ordering for biccies!!!

EleanorReally · 11/06/2019 07:58

The hospital have said no more biscuits, what about plenty of fruit op? and would the hospital measure her out her sherry for the happy hour?

EvaHarknessRose · 11/06/2019 08:11

She should by law be allowed to make unwise decisions that she has the capacity to understand. Choosing not to diet or be dry would come under this I think, though there may be health aspects she can’t understand or weigh up. Their staff will have had mental capacity act training, so ask their view about what her rights are, rather than about what they think you/she should do. Put it this way, many people in the community would be able to buy their own biscuits and sherry and would ignore doctors advice. I would go with a small supply of each.

Feelingwalkedover · 11/06/2019 08:12

No absolutely do not buy them.

Isatis · 11/06/2019 08:14

People are allowed by law to make unwise decisions, but that doesn't mean that other people have to facilitate them.

Passthecherrycoke · 11/06/2019 08:22

“Please disregard contacting the newspaper and advising them that she is mentally ill. That could get you into all kinds of legal trouble for breach of privacy if your mother objected.”

How? OP isn’t a medical professional breaching confidentiality, what specific legal trouble could she be in?

I missed that the mother had lost weight since the treats had been banned. That’s surprising, there must’ve been a lot of them

musicposy · 11/06/2019 08:22

I used to work in care home and we had some residents who couldn't be trusted with packets of biscuits, chocolates, etc as they had no self control and would eat the whole packet on one sitting. We kept these residents treats in the kitchen and were rationed out so for example in the evening when they were settled we would bring them a couple of biscuits with their hot chocolate or a glass of Sherry and a couple of chocolates!

Whilst this sounds like an answer, is it even allowed? Surely if they have any kind of capacity they are entitled to decide for themselves if they want a whole packet?

My first thought was I can't be trusted with a whole packet of biscuits. I usually eat the lot. I really dread getting old sometimes.

Starface has a good answer. Weighing up the best thing for her in the time she has left seems sensible. She can't make you bring biscuits, and it makes sense to work with the care home, but you have to think how much it will realistically benefit her to be lighter against her upset at being denied these things. Maybe discuss this again with her carers.

Shequakes · 11/06/2019 08:27

The problem with measuring stuff out. Can be that if the person knows it is theirs, then become very upset at not being allowed free access.

OP definitely needs a meeting to discuss this and find out what options are available and compromises.

PotatoesDieInHotCars · 11/06/2019 08:47

You haven't said how old your mother is but from what you have said it doesn't sound like she is end stage. This could go on for many, many more years.

The risk isn't just the impact of her weight on her physical care, it's also that a high sugar/fat diet along with a completley sedentary lifestyle can cause much worse problems. Like T2 diabetes. If she ends up with diabetes are you going to stop the treats then or continue until she gets really sick and her current hospital is no longer able to meet her needs? Surely that is going to be much worse for her with advanced dementia.

You need to work with the hospital on this for her own sake.

category12 · 11/06/2019 08:52

If she gets drunk on their horrible wine instead, isn't that still better than chugging sherry, which has loads more calories?

That's presuming she chugs sherry like my mum. Grin

Honestly, I'd be taking in lovely fruit, flowers, nice things, the occasional cream tea or something, to give her something nice, but not be stocking her up with sherry and biscuits.

Unless she's close to the end, in which case she can have what she damn well likes.

GlassSuppers · 11/06/2019 08:56

Are they hoisting her because of her size or are they hoisting her because she can't walk?
I work in a care home and the size of the person won't matter to the hoist at all, we have people who are underweight that have to use a hoist because they simply can't mobilise.

Size does factor in when administering personal care though. To thoroughly wash/dry/dress a person who can not/will not move you have to roll them on their side, obviously the heavier the person the harder they are to roll, especially if they don't help.

I would do as the hospital ask and stop the biscuits, there will be a reason they're asking you to.

With regards to it being an abuse of power, this would only be the case if the OP was bringing them in and they were withholding them from her mum. If the OP isn't bringing them in then the hospital isn't the one stopping her mum having them.

I also agree with contacting the newspaper and telling them about your mums condition to protect her from herself.

Good luck OP, I know it's tough

Ohhgreat · 11/06/2019 08:59

In regards to the newspaper articles - can you write to the editors and explain her vulnerable state, mental illness etc? Explain that if they publish any of her words they're taking advantage of a vulnerable and I'll woman? May stop them, if nothing else it shows the hospital you're doing what you can to stop it?

amusedbush · 11/06/2019 09:06

Over 100kg is huge.

Piss off. I weight 100kg on the nose and I'm a size 16. Yes, I absolutely have weight to lose but I'm not HUGE.

ittakes2 · 11/06/2019 09:11

I think if the hospital is asking you not to buy them and its them hauling her onto the toilet than you should respect their request.

XXVaginaAndAUterus · 11/06/2019 09:11

I think the small catering packs as an occasional treat, or buy naice biscuits and take in two in a tupperware/cling film one a week for her. Although if she gets hospital wine doesn't she also get hospital biscuits? If she's medically ok to have alcohol I'd take her in an individual bottle of sherry occasionally - one every two weeks or so - you could decant if you're having problems getting individual bottles or for cost.

Aprillygirl · 11/06/2019 09:15

I actually think it's rather mean to suddenly withhold all her treats at your mum's stage in life OP, even if it is better for her health in the long run. Couldn't you compromise and bring her just one 'naughty' treat a week? She may have dementia and not always know what's best for herself,but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed some free will.

Didiusfalco · 11/06/2019 09:21

I think this is a reasonable request from the hospital, perhaps have a conversation about working treats in as part of her overall diet - so they are accounted for. From your point of view I would remember that they don’t have to keep her as a resident. My gmil was basically kicked out of her nursing home - she was a diabetic and essentially non-compliant. The home had her admitted to hospital and told the family they wouldn’t be allowing her back as they felt they couldn’t manage her. This was very unsettling for her and hard for the in-laws. Don’t get in to a position where you are working against the hospital.

category12 · 11/06/2019 09:26

That makes you about 16 stone, I'm not sure how you're fitting size 16 clothes.

MatildaTheCat · 11/06/2019 09:27

I’d ask to meet with the dietician and see how some sweet foods could be incorporated into a calorie restricted diet. Most people do crave some sweet food, dementia seems to increase this craving.

I absolutely agree it needs managing or she will end up restricted to bed. All staff and visitors need to be on the same page of course.

Is the plan really to keep her in a private hospital long term? I’d have thought an excellent nursing home with a good activity programme would be more suitable. Where FIL is living they have daily exercise sessions that anyone can join in with, including wheelchair users. And being relatively busy keeps the mind off the next meal to some extent.

HiJenny35 · 11/06/2019 09:28

No you don't take them. The hospital have said no, she's staying there, stick to their rules.

stucknoue · 11/06/2019 09:31

I would suggest limiting treats, so only for specific occasions, but bring in fruit weekly. Make sure no one else is bringing in treats too. Nursing homes provide desserts so she will get some sweet stuff

Whatnotea · 11/06/2019 09:31

Surely its a compromise.
Individual packet of biscuits and decant the sherry into a small bottle.
Take it to her weekly so she has something to look forward to once a week. Mix it up with healthier stiff grapes, strawberries etc..

AlansLeftMoob · 11/06/2019 09:35

That makes you about 16 stone, I'm not sure how you're fitting size 16 clothes.

Because everyone has a different body shape and height. When I was 19 stone I was wearing size 20 clothes very comfortably. 100kg for you might be huge, 100kg for someone who is 6 foot tall is NOT huge.

OP I feel for you, and I do think you should send an email to the newspapers telling them that your mother has dementia, I can see how including a letter from the home or anything official about her diagnosis may be a breach of confidentiality but surely just making them aware of her situation generally shouldn't be an issue.

With regard to the sweets and chocolate, I would also stop buying them but have a mini chocolate bar or a mini sherry in your bag when you visit her so that if she wants them you can give her just that. I know that given free reign she could have an issue but cutting the things she enjoys so much out completely seems so cruel to me - surely a treat once or twice a week isn't going to have a massive effect on her weight? In all seriousness too much fruit is every bit as bad for weight loss as the odd biscuit.

Yabbers · 11/06/2019 09:36

I wouldn’t, as the hospital have asked you not to. If your family think she needs biscuits, they should visit and take her some. If they are that bothered about what you are doing, they can presumably offer to do it themselves?

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