To be annoyed at nursery

[Bobbiepin]

DD has been at nursery for 10 months (she's 19mo) and recently moved into the toddler room. We had no complaints with the baby room (except for them being a little over zealous with the sick policy). She adored her key worker, formed strong bonds with the other staff and loved it.

Since moving up rooms I've got some concerns but don't really know how to go about dealing with them.

1. Dd had settling in sessions over a week in the new room, all fine, very happy. They allocated her a key worker but this woman was on later shifts for the first week so wasnt there for drop off which made it much much harder (DD has never cried at drop off but cried every day that week). Couldn't this have been delayed a week so the key worker would be there on an earlier shift?
2. In 3 days she's been bitten twice. I realise this happens, but twice in 3 days seems excessive. The staff can't watch every kid every second of the day, and won't tell me if it was the same child but they also won't tell me what is being done about it (e.g. if the kid's parents have been informed, what discipline is happening etc.) The first bite broke the skin.
3. Today I was also told she was chewing on a block and its cut her mouth. Fair play she's teething and chewing on stuff, but should they have things around that can cut her?

Usually the nursery are great but it seems like there's been so many things in a shirt space of time in the new room. I'm not really sure what to do.

No decent nursery is going to use a naughty step or time out punishment, especially with under 2s. Your expectations are unrealistic.

What should they do then?

I expect my child not to be repeatedly bitten tbh. I'm a childminder & work with biters but if biting was regular & ongoing by one child, I think I would have to eventually release that child from my care to protect the other children. Not saying this about OP situation but I think there should be policies in place in most settings.

Observe the biter, try to identify triggers, intervene and redirect before they bite, remove the biter from the situation.

Sounds great, why couldn't I have been told that though?

To be honest I was hoping for some sort of naughty step, time out type thing.

They're babies! And it's 2019! Time-out is very 'Noughties'.

If you can afford it a nanny would probably be a more suitable childcare option for you, or a childminder with only one or 2 other little ones.

I would expect a policy for that age group to be along the lines of keeping others safe and identifying why a child is persistently biting with individual strategies for managing it - as it is for children in my child's special school who are at a similar cognitive level.

@Bobbiepin
But you would know at 2 years old if they have SEN or if they are ‘naughty’ ( really no 2 year old is naughty) because very few children receive a diagnosis at such a young age.

In regard to the naughty chair, things have really moved away from this, we have policy stating on no account should a naught chair be used. In all honesty ofsted would shut me down if we used naughty chairs.

Obviously if there are additional needs in play then that child needs more attention

But that’s often at the expenses of other children, and that’s when accidents happen, when children are waking around with blocks in their mouths, because staff are elsewhere of attention is on something else.

I’m not saying this is right at all, and it’s demoralising for the staff and hard for the parents to deal with.
Nurseries really need to receive decent funding from the government, what we currently get doesn’t equal quality childcare.

Wouldn’t not would

Nurseries really need to receive decent funding from the government, what we currently get doesn’t equal quality childcare.

I really believe my DD does get quality childcare from her nursery. I know I don't see what goes on all day, but I can certainly see how she benefits and how much she loves it. I mention this because, thought I do very much see why the OP feels worried, I think quality childcare doesn't mean your child never comes home with a minor injury, or having had an altercation with another child. They are two! I would worry much more if my child came home pristine every day, never interacting with other children. That would suggest to me she wasn't really doing very much.

I think a lot of nurseries manage to provide great care, despite the shameful lack of proper funding.

If the biter is under 2 then the naughty step doesn’t really work. It’s more about trying to anticipate the bites (if the biting often occurs in specific situations). It’s totally reasonable to ask how your child is being protected though.

If naughty step is very 90s what is more modern then?

@Freddiefox I wouldn't expect them to know if the child had SEND already, I'm suggesting that this is the time where they may start noticing things. It's definitely frustrating as no one can really tell me what I should be expecting in this situation. I'm not going to brush it off like it never happened, although she is in nursery it is still my responsibility to keep my child safe and if she is being persistently hurt then something needs to be done.

@FurrySlipperBoots what makes you suggest a nanny when everything else I've said about her nursery is positive? I'm not that impressed with this room (maybe because baby room set such high standards but she's very happy there.

The room just has a different dynamic because the children are older. Older children do different activities and behave differently. A baby room will be calmer because they are babies.

You're really making this a much bigger deal than it needs to be.

Also if they suspect SEND there is no way they will ever discuss this with you!!!

I really would hope by year 5 or 6 no one will be biting
God no, I wasnt suggesting that biting g would still be an issue then All my friends with girls and the kids that I work with , many issues started around these years. It was just a throwaway comment thoigh!!
Itces

what makes you suggest a nanny when everything else I've said about her nursery is positive?

Because she'd have 1-on-1 attention, she'd be using her own toys (you'd know if they were safe) and there wouldn't be any other children to bite her. I'm not suggesting that you remove her from the nursery though, just that I think she'd be in the same boat in ANY nursery so if you want her to have more close attention and a reduced risk of being hurt by other children, a smaller, quieter setting (childminder) or 1 individual providing undivided attention and care (nanny) would be your way to go.

As for time-out being 'noughties' (2000-2009) it's because understanding of child psychology has moved on. I think settings are far more likely to focus on positive discipline.

That's fair enough but she gets so much from the social element of nursery that I wouldn't want her in a smaller setting. It's also great for getting kids ready for the demands of school. She's not precious by a long shot (although I apparently am) but the biting has got my back up.

they also won't tell me what is being done about it (e.g. if the kid's parents have been informed, what discipline is happening etc.)

Discipline and informing the parents won't stop it happening. It will happen because the child has poor impulse control and can't manage their frustrating yet. That said if a child is known to be a biter they should be watched more carefully and situations should be managed quickly.

I felt like this until my DD was the biter - then I felt much worse...

@Neverender I understand. If DD was doing the biting I would definitely want to know!

If DD was doing the biting I would definitely want to know!
I'm pretty certain you would know. Its just that the nursery can't tell you who is doing it to DD.

If DD was doing the biting I would definitely want to know!
The parents will definitely know. I don’t know if you were given an incident form to sign but the parents of the biter are usually given one as well and they log them together.

I did sign a form for both bites. I just don't want to assume that something is being done, I need a bit more reassurance than that (obviously within the bounds of GDPR and respecting all children's confidentiality).

All your complaints OP are exactly why I don't like nursery settings for under 3s. Imho the ratios mean inadequate adult supervision, particularly at the 12-24m age. Cms have the same ratios BUT are often under ratio during school hours and the key difference is the range of ages, they rarely have all children the same age. Eg a CM might have an 18m old, a 3 year old, and 3 older school wraparound children (My cm is like this). The younger children get a higher level of support during school hours. Plus the 3 year old often needs a different kind of input - can respond more to verbal instruction etc, freeing up the CM physically to be able to intervene if there are issues with biting or hitting.

With the nursery I would give it another week then seriously grumble if it keeps happening so regularly as it suggests they don't have enough staff to supervise sufficiently to protect your child.

I'd also be very grumpy about the key worker timing. You are paying them to cater to the needs of your child. As it is the key worker changes that inevitably happen in nurseries are not good for children's attachment, so the least they can do is manage them well. Planning a room change can happen months ahead, by choosing to plough ahead with it when the key worker wasn't there suggests them putting everything else possible (money, other children, staff needs) ahead of YOUR child. But then I think in a lot of nurseries the key worker system is a token box ticking gesture to meet OFSTED requirements, rather than being applied consistently to cater for young children's need for a specific primary carer to form an attachment to. I would put in a specific complaint, to try to reduce the chance of it happening again, room changes are very unsettling for young children as it is.

I actually agree with you to a certain extent. It was a tough choice between nursery and childminder but unfortunately our careers mean that nursery works better for us. We looked around for months before settling on dd's nursery - part of the reason being is that they are usually excellent with key workers. Children are allocated a KW when they start or change room but if they develop a better bond with someone else they change. I would have preferred someone else in the baby room but dd loved her KW and it was clear she was very happy with her, regardless of my opinion.

Everything they do is child centred, which is why I think this is bothering me so much. She had an excellent day today, fine at drop off and happy all day. Hopefully it was a rough couple of days and all under control now.

Btw I love your username! It's all I say at work