Jobs are getting more competitive and wages don't match effort

[mumofthreehundred]

Is it just me or are jobs getting crazy competitive these days?

I lost out on an entry level job today because I didn't have enough experience. I'm a graduate, first class degree , with tonnes of experience just in a different sector. The job was so poorly paid there would be no national insurance. I was interviewed by a panel four people and spent hours filling in the longest form.

I just can't find much else out there that pays enough to cover my current situation (3 children in nursery, yes I had surprise twins)

There is so much competition these days that you can't afford to rock boat and ask for more money or flex working.

I'm trying to move out of my current sector but it just seems impossible these days.

I don't have time or money to retrain. See above for family situation!

I am sure I remember a time 15-20 years ago when it was so much easier to get a job. Drop your cv in, head to a recruitment agency etc. You could pick a professional career and there was a clear route in. I'm seeing a lot of jobs that are minimum wage and they should be more. Others require lots and lots of volunteering before you could be considered for a paid job. Or some extra qualification that costs a few grand to get.

Aibu or is the job situation getting out of hand for people like me?

On two occasions in the pass I was told I was the 'best' candidate and scored highest in all the tests and at interview but on one occasion I was not offered the job because it went to someone who had done it before. Instead they offered me part time freelance work at a shit rate of pay and got really uppity when I turned it down.

And on the other occasion, they didn't offer because they decided I'd get bored and leave soon. I told them I wouldn't and would have loved the job. They sounded very surprised and said, 'Oh well we've offered it to someone else now. What a pity.' As though I'd applied for the job and done the interview and all the aptitude tests just to past the time. Bizarre.

But the flipside happens. I once applied for a job way over my head. Of all the candidates I was by far the least experienced. I know because it was one of those group sessions and they all had shiny track records. I was astounded when they offered it to me and it was the career breakthrough I needed at the time.

Could anyone tell me EG if you work in HR, why you have a degree in medieval French history rather than n HR related function or law?

This is changing. HR roles in big companies (especially grad roles) are becoming global in nature and so grads from the UK (with irrelevant degrees) are often competing directly with grads from the US / Asia who study undergrad degrees in HR / Business. It’s now almost impossible for a new UK HR grad to get onto a big HR grad scheme without a business / HR related degree — it’s also becoming difficult for those with experience but without relevant first degrees to get promoted.

This is possibly the one benefit I see from ending freedom of movement, controlling the borders etc etc...

FOM has a very small impact on wages, "infantessimally small" is how the main author of the BOE study into it describes it.

Leaving the EU will result in worse eages and conditions for UK workers

The EU hasn’t been so great for Greece and Italy either, costs are going up wages going down

Greece and Italy's problems are down to national government decisions, not the EU.

I wouldn’t pick an older grad with years of experience for an entry role and would be a bit suspicious as to why someone with that much experience (and qualifications) wasn’t in a more senior role

Argh. Because they don't even get interviewed for them! Agesim is very very real in the corporate world. Well, everywhere really.
Woman over 30-nope, will want 2 lots of maternity leave
Woman over 40-nope, not "dynamic" or clued up about digital stuff
Woman over 50-omg fucking Nana, she won't fit in.
If I need to hire anyone for my business I have already decided they are going to be over 45 because it's so damn hard to find work when you are older. Plus, I would want life experience, calm, perspective, the ability to make a professional phone call ( amazingly rare) proper grammar and someone who doesn't spend all their time on Instagram.
Anyway, yanbu op.

I don’t think mass immigration is going to help though, 1000’s of refugees stuck in camps that Germany are sending more refugees back to and EU have gone very quiet about it

Not really that straightforward zippy- the euro has been a disaster for Greece in particular, not that it wasn’t a disaster beforehand, but at least it could have steadied the ship - the obfuscation of the euro was disaster-plus.

France and Germany couldn’t be considered to have clean hands in all this.

My student child can’t get a part time minimum wage job in a large city, and she has a whole year of full time retail experience behind her. She’s applied for over 60 jobs. Shops are closing down all over. I’ve been looking for a job for myself for a while and I will take a pay cut. I currently earn 30k with a degree and PhD. I’m in my 50s in London.

The refugees in Germany appear to be quite successful in finding employment, more than 300,000 as of last year.

The euro has only been a disaster for Greece because it couldn't default on its debts and devalue its currency.
It was quite successful before the debt crisis.

The EU also managed the Greek debt so it had significant cuts made to it.

I have recently been interviewed for an internal role, same dept but different role, been with the company 15 years and the role i applied for was one i used to do 5 years ago, i just fancy a change.
They did say my current salary was quite a bit above the max salary in the salary band for the role.
The thing is yhe new job and current job are the same pay grade and i have had standard pay increases over the last 10 years. I guess they don't change the pay ranges yearly based on inflation.

It was quite successful before the debt crisis.
What’s the ‘it’ here, the euro?

I work for a small IT company and we wanted a sort of apprentice, minimum wage with no experience so completely mouldable and we would pay for courses etc. The only applications we had were from people massively over qualified and over experienced. We didn't want them to be honest, we really did want someone with no experience but willing to work hard. I dont know if its employees more applicants not knowing their worth.

Yup. Greek economy grew every year after it joined the Euro, transaction costs fell, raw materials got cheaper etc.

FOM has a very small impact on wages, "infantessimally small" is how the main author of the BOE study into it describes it.

People are arguing over the fact that it does have an effect, even if small are the same people who denounce the reports by the same bodies that show Corbyn/Labours policies as costly and not workable.

There are many policies that have contributed to wages somewhat stagnating, immigration is a small chip at them the same as short termism that was working tax credits, increasing university uptake (which helped massage the unemployment rate), service based economy, globalisation, every homeowner expecting YOY increases, etc,etc.

There is no one magic bullet, it's all well and good to pretend we can just copy one aspect of some of our European neighbours without looking at the 'unsavoury' policies that balance them out.

lost - but why didn’t you want them? They applied for the job, they would still be willing to work hard and you would not have to pay for courses. They need a job as much as anyone else.

YANBU. Yet you still see on here multiple threads advising teens not to work as they 'need to focus on their studies' then they get out, have no experience and can't get a job.

daisy worried about boredom and as a small business things like recruitment fees are a lot and we couldn't afford to replace them a year later.

Also wanted someone who can be moulded into the way we do things rather than what they have been doing.

The pp who mentioned degrees are worthless now - I do understand where you’re coming from, but where I live even minimum wage jobs expect you to have a degree. I don’t think my degree makes me special at all, and if I had the grades I would have obviously chosen to study a more ‘traditional’ degree. But if I didn’t study for a degree at all it’s just another thing to put me at a disadvantage

Also, most of the decent apprenticeships (for those who didn’t go to uni) are still highly competitive. There aren’t even that many in general. I live in a major city

Plenty of internships I see for university students / recent graduates are unpaid too (expenses may be covered)

The sheer volume of non vocational graduates is partly the problem. Disproportionate to genuine grad schemes.

So grads are going for entry level roles.

So being a grad + experience sets you ahead of grad and of non grad and possibly on a par with non grad + lots of experience as a candidate and so on.

It's getting very hard to change sector. Business costs rising and so are minimum wages (not saying that's wrong) so more senior hires need to be effective quickly.

It's a very tough market right now. And a nervous one.

Yet you still see on here multiple threads advising teens not to work as they 'need to focus on their studies' then they get out, have no experience and can't get a job.

I think the majority students will have low skilled work experience for e.g. in retail which I know a pp had already said is not relevant
However, where I’m from for more ‘skilled’ work experience e.g. if I wanted an entry level job in HR/finance many employers will expect a 2.1 degree or to be studying towards one, relevant experience (for minimum wage entry level jobs yes), plus a whole other list of expectations quite simply because they can

If I wasn’t even studying I couldn’t get such experience unless I had contacts, or can afford to do an unpaid internship. Even then, unpaid internships can still be competitive

I have a relative in her 50s who works in retail banking, many of her younger colleagues (20s) all have degrees in respectable subjects from RGs (e.g. Mathematics). Meanwhile, she never went to uni

Yup. Greek economy grew every year after it joined the Euro, transaction costs fell, raw materials got cheaper etc.

The economy grew between joining the euro and the crisis because they were borrowing at unsustainable levels!

Which you know, caused the crisis.

Greek borrowing was high prior to joining though.

The crisis was caused by Greek governments over borrowing, and motncollecting enough in taxes, not by the euro or the EU.