Jobs are getting more competitive and wages don't match effort

[mumofthreehundred]

Is it just me or are jobs getting crazy competitive these days?

I lost out on an entry level job today because I didn't have enough experience. I'm a graduate, first class degree , with tonnes of experience just in a different sector. The job was so poorly paid there would be no national insurance. I was interviewed by a panel four people and spent hours filling in the longest form.

I just can't find much else out there that pays enough to cover my current situation (3 children in nursery, yes I had surprise twins)

There is so much competition these days that you can't afford to rock boat and ask for more money or flex working.

I'm trying to move out of my current sector but it just seems impossible these days.

I don't have time or money to retrain. See above for family situation!

I am sure I remember a time 15-20 years ago when it was so much easier to get a job. Drop your cv in, head to a recruitment agency etc. You could pick a professional career and there was a clear route in. I'm seeing a lot of jobs that are minimum wage and they should be more. Others require lots and lots of volunteering before you could be considered for a paid job. Or some extra qualification that costs a few grand to get.

Aibu or is the job situation getting out of hand for people like me?

Yep, I remember I was recently looking at ALL the jobs available in the large city I live in. I’d roughly estimate that about 95% paid under 30k, 90% under 25k and 85% under 20k. Are wages really not increasing because of low productivity in the UK, or is it that employers have realised that people will work for low wages, so why would they bother increasing them? And if it IS because of low productivity, why is productivity so much lower in the UK then other countries? I don’t buy that it’s because people in the UK are ‘lazy’, I think it’s because of the toxic attitude to work in this country. For example, it’s been shown that working 35-40 hours a week is unnecessary, and that productivity actually increases when people work less hours. But the UK seems to be going backwards in this respect, with hours slowly creeping up and 9-6 gradually becoming the new norm. I’ve even saw a job in my industry advertised as 8-6 Mon-Fri. And these jobs never pay any more than ones that do 9-5. It seems like there’s an obsession with bums on seats and hours spent in the workplace, rather than actual output.

I have to interview the best of the applications; to ignore the best and interview then ones at the level I expected would be unfair to the higher qualified/experienced applicants. And I have to employ the best at the interviews; how could I do anything else?!

Is people being knocked back for jobs for being “too experienced” not a thing any more then?

The over qualified applicants would never know that you’d picked less qualified ones and even if they did you’re entitled to pick the ones that best suit the job. I’d never expect to be offered a data entry job because if I was recruiting for that role and someone like me applied I’d just assume they’d be off when something better came along.

OP I doubt the reason they gave you is really why you didn’t get it. A trained chimp can do data entry.

I have a degree and a masters. My FTE salary is £17000. I like my job in terms of the hours and lack of stress but I do feel massively underpaid, especially living in the SE. people constantly saying to me ' but you've got a masters, you could work anywhere you want' do my head in! It's simply not that easy as the market is now so competitive

As to why wages etc are better in Germany: Germany has social partnership.

A couple of years back I copied and pasted a local job description onto MN and asked other posters to guess the salary. Guesses ranged mostly from £30k to £50k. The salary on offer was £17k.

Regional differences in salaries are so huge. My manager is a fully qualified accountant with about 5 years post qualification experience, and 20 years general finance experience and her salary is less than £30k. Her boss has about ten years post qualification experience and is on less than £40k. But I constantly see statistics saying that a qualified accountant will easily earn 50k. Not where I live. Well, some do, but it's certainly not what the majority are earning.

The labour pool at the lower end and entry level end of the job market has been exponentially increasing during the last 10-20 years, this has created an employer market not an employee market and has driven not just huge competition for entry level jobs but also wage stagnation in most areas. The drive in technology advancement hasn't helped but is actually not as damning as being made out. The bottom line in most areas of the country and all but a handful of sectors is there is just too many applicants and not enough jobs.

Actually the job I went for was in a school but didn't get it as no school experience. A million others applied that did have that.

How do you get school experience? Volunteering... I just can't afford to work for free at the moment.

I've noticed the working day get longer too. It used to be 9-5 with a half hour or even hour break.

Now it's 8 30 to 5 or even 5.30 as standard. For less money!

Going straight to answer the OP

The problem is, degrees are 10 a penny these days. Tony Blairs ideal of 50+% educated to degree standard was foolhardy - trying to make a degree the bottom level of education.

I would be curious, those with degrees, how many of them are employed in the field their degree is in? Or that their degree is relevant to. But also whether they are at a salary level to pay back their loans and grants.

Other than the uni experience do people still think their degree is worth it?

Could anyone tell me EG if you work in HR, why you have a degree in medieval French history rather than n HR related function or law?

Wages are falling in Germany and house prices are rising. Fact immigration has an effect, look at what the British did to Native Americans and Australian Aborigines. We have had 300,000 people come into this country every year for last 10 years of course it has an effect but I don’t think that is the only reason, selling off council houses, forign investors buying big chunks property developments, tax havens for the very rich, making everyone scrabble for the scraps that are left, very sad

I work in HR so can answer UnicornBrexits question. I have a degree in psychology, but on finishing my degree decided it was too competitive to pursue a career as a psychologist. I thought about what else I'd like to do and decided on HR.

I think it's very easy for teens to pick a degree course based on what they'd like to do, only when reality kicks in towards the end of the course are employment opportunities in chosen field really considered.

Maybe it's different now that degrees cost so much, compared to 20 years ago when I graduated.

Is people being knocked back for jobs for being “too experienced” not a thing any more then?

I've been knocked back twice recently for being too experienced, both times I was dropping my hours &/or seeking to drop management responsibility. You can be seen as a threat to your line manager or perhaps unlikely to be happy and want career progression again. Or simply your face doesn't fit and its and excuse.

I’ve just spent 2 days prepping a presentation and show case for a job I then had to do a test and translation while waiting for an hour long interview ( didn’t get it)
My old job put entry level min wage applicants through maths and English (unecessary for the Achual role) timed test which I did for fun and failed despite having math and English good gcse grades and an ma they had to jump through hoops and were often sent home early without the interview if they failed any section my old and current employees were soooooo up their bums !

@DontPressSendTooSoon that was just a fatuitous example I gave, but psychology and HR are linked- you both play with peoples minds

I can also understand a people who do a degree later in life because its something they want to pursue. I have an acquaintance who is middle management but doing a degree in Egyptology - and she's very unlikely to relocate to the Nile Delta, but its her passion.

A friend of mine is a matron (Grade 8b) and her degree is in Fashion and Design, she had to then do a masters in psychiatric nursing to progress. The fashion degree, never used.

Could anyone tell me EG if you work in HR, why you have a degree in medieval French history rather than n HR related function or law?

Schools used to push people into studying what they thought you should study. I don't come from the sort of middle class background where my parents and relatives worked in professional jobs. I had never heard of HR when I was at school because I didn't know anyone who worked in that type of job. Careers advice was non existent and we were all packed off to university to study an 'academic' subject.

Twenty years later I still haven't reached a salary level where I need to start repaying my loans. With hindsight I would much prefer to not have gone to university but the options laid out to us at school were 1) go to university and get a degree and the world is your oyster or 2) don't go to university and be stuck in a dead end job forever.

Obviously people will say 'well the onus was on you to research it' and these days with the internet that's obviously possible. But 25 years ago all we had to go on was the advice of our teachers, and naively I trusted them and only found out too late that they were wrong.

That is the usual far right nonsense Gin96

I live in Germany and the population level is falling - it will become critical within the next 30 years, predicted to fall eventually from 80 million to 55 million

Germany is already short of workers, hence the govt trying to attract more

The German economy is suffering a bit atm because of Trump's tariff / trade wars with China & others- being a major exporter it has been caught in the crossfire

Op, I totally understand what your saying.

Due to Dh's work I needed to find a job with better hours. - after searching the only part time jobs in my sector are 10-15 k less than what I'm on now.

Thankful my work have asked me to stay and offered me more flexible hours

Why not encourage the population who already live there to have more children, why do you have to have mass immigration?

Surely the reason why Germany has strong wage growth is tied in with the fact that it is a net exporter of goods??

The UK's export profile is not has healthy (negative i believe?) so it is not surprising that wage growth here is not as robust.

Some utter tripe being posted here.

For starters no where near 50 percent of young people go to University, its about 27 percent of 18 years olds, and under 21 about 30. The overall level of the population with a degree is about 33 percent and 25 percent of all jobs have a degree as a formal barrier to entry. About another 5 would have it as an informal barrier.

EU immigration does not cause lower wages to any significant extent research shows that the impact in only the lowest paid jobs is about a penny an hour in lower wages rises, even if we take that to jave been every year since 2004 it works out at about 6 pounds per week. The tax free threshold has increased by 6000 since then. Nor does it cause unemployment in domestic nationals.

Germany is already short of workers, hence the govt trying to attract more

It recently passed a law with a huge majority regarding immigration, what a lot on the 'left' gloss over though is how the new laws will treat failed asylum. Germany has a more honest discussion around immigration that if some in the UK acknowledged would help foster a healthier debate all round and may get rid of the agenda setting arguments with framing such as 'far right'

Also Germany has been caught in the cross fire between US/China it is facing a lot of other contributing factors, new car regulation, internal domestic consumption, and Eurozone policies having just as much of an impact.

Is people being knocked back for jobs for being “too experienced” not a thing any more then?

I am concerned if the role is right for the candidate if one is obviously overqualified but it won’t stop me interviewing.

My Finance Assistant is technically overqualified but absolutely excellent and I’m glad she wanted less responsibility as we benefit from her experience.

Employers can be shortsighted.

No offence, but you have just demonstrated the delusional ethos of the candidates I have to interview. A Degree, a real Degree, qualifies you to work in a specific role, Doctor, Dentist, Engineer, for example. A Degree in (insert random subject chosen because the person liked the city more than the Uni) is of no use to me when selecting a candidate.

I am sorry but I have to disagree with at least some of your point. The degrees you have listed are vocational degrees. They are not the only 'real degrees'. There are plenty of degrees - history, modern languages, English literature, chemistry, physics, mathematics - that do not qualify you to work in a specific role. However, they are still 'real' - they do teach knowledge and skills that can take you into a range of roles - research, teaching, law, civil service etc etc. Degrees are not just about training for a single role.

However, i do agree that there are people doing degrees for the sake of going to uni who would be better served with a direct train on job route. Things like tourism and retail and gardening type roles that are ideally suited to vocational study. Ironically, study for a specific role that you claim is the purpose of a 'real degree'.

And what should those who at 18 don't have a set job in mind be doing? We don't all know in 6th form that we want to be a doctor or an engineer. Studying one of the degrees I mentioned above gives you options. But it should be supplemented with equivalent non university on the job options for those who don't know exactly what they want to do but know they want to go into hospitality for example. I think the drive to get people to university has hurt those young people the most. The drive should be to make university accessible to everyone who wants to go (ie not be held back by socio economic factors) not that everyone should go to university (when a training in the job based route would be better)

I completely agree OP. DH has given up even applying for work. The salary in his sector has more than halved. He's better off doing scrappy bits of freelance work and not having to fork out for the weekly commute into London.
Yesterday I saw a job for an ambulance driver advertised at £8.63 per hour. I actually shouted at the screen (was alone.) £8.63 ph for unsociable hours, dangerous work. advanced driving skills and massive responsibility and stress. I despise the commercial ethos in our country now. It's punitive to workers and economically stunted. You can't get money circulating in a society and create strong economic growth if no one bloody has any! Rant over.

I prefer recent grads for true entry level roles, or (in some) a non-grad with a heap of experience. I wouldn’t pick an older grad with years of experience for an entry role and would be a bit suspicious as to why someone with that much experience (and qualifications) wasn’t in a more senior role