FGM on year 5 school curriculum

[MermaidMummy]

I'm really not sure if I'm being unreasonable, so I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.
My 9-year-old's class has just started learning about puberty. We have been told that the next lesson will cover terminology such as erection, sperm and female genital mutilation.
I just don't get why they need to learn about FGM at 9 years old. Some of these kids are very "young" for their age, and mine is very sensitive (won't watch the news in case an "adult topic" crops up).
What is the rationale for teaching this in year 5? There is nobody in the class from a cultural background likely to carry out FGM, but even if there was, would a 9 year-old know that it might happen to them and inform a teacher (if that is the rationale for teaching it)? From what I have read they aren't told anything about it in advance. If it has already happened to them, what is the benefit of bringing it up in class? Couldn't it be damaging and stigmatising?

Fgm can only be cured by education and educating it away. But that is going to present massive barriers in communities where bride's come From small villages, can't speak English, can't integrate and want to cut their daughters, and the men folk want too.

One can only hope with this teach all strategy that an aunt or sil hears about it and speaks out or bil , uncle Etc.

Some community are remarkably closed still. One can only get it out there loud and clear... illegal, barbaric... unnecessary etc.

Can't sweep it away.

Eloquently put Datistraction.

Education all the way, boys and girls.

Baby what is your age appropriate explanation of why it is done, that is also true?

How would you recommend explaining why it is illegal to mutilate girls genitals but circumcision is legal?

Are there any other considerations about teaching this in mixed groups age9? It's the only sex specific one I can think of. Pants rule etc is for all children. Are there any other sex specific risk taught at this age and how is it handled in mixed groups?

I worry a bit what the boys would be saying in the playground afterwards.

Also presumably if it's got to be covered as a risk to all girls, wouldn't the boys go away with some ideas about what they might expect when they start having sex when older?

The more I think about it the more I'm interested in the messages that boys and girls will end up with, in reality, at age 9. In a way, if they're told this could happen to any girl (but it's wrong and illegal) then in a funny sort of way, that normalises it.

It isn't on the curriculum and safeguarding applies to teachers, not pupils
For what must be the millionth time part of safeguarding involves teaching children what is and isn't ok.
It's really not that hard to grasp.

I dread to think what would happen if we just said 'yeah safeguarding is hoping we notice something physical & concrete or we'll play roulette on whether a child who's been emotionally manipulated or coercively controlled happens to come and talk to us without anyone telling them about safeguarding issues in the first place... better still let's leave it up to parents and family to choose what safeguarding topics they want to share because a family harming a child will totally sit down and talk about the pants rule, emotional abuse, neglect etc'

That won't lead to children being harmed for longer at all.

But sure, personal opinions come before multiagency professional judgements on these matters.

The arrogance of some astounds me. Sometimes I've felt uncomfortable hearing some topics moved to KS3, but then I realise that actually police and social services probably know more than I do and realise that me feeling uncomfortable doesn't mean it isn't happening and my opinion that ideally a year later would sit better doesn't change the fact that those kids need information sooner. It's about seeing the bigger picture and separating personal feelings from professional judgement.

I don’t know whether all schools do this, but ours has a general talk to the whole class then separate single sex groups. The material covered is the same, but it’s felt that the children are more relaxed and more likely to ask questions in single sex groups.

the view of some posters that their personal opinions should dictate school curriculum choices

I have two problems, as I see it. I’m not trying to dictate the curriculum, I simply don’t want my child educated on the subject because someone else other than a parent thinks it proper. This isn’t the mandate of schools. Schools exist to teach children literacy and numeracy. What we’re discussing are cultural norms and values. It’s not the schools business to instruct children in values and morals - that’s my job, as a parent.

Added to which, the state does not know my child as I know her. She is a sensitive child who will find the subject matter deeply troubling. I may have an opportunity to discuss the subject with her in future when she is older and more emotionally mature. That’s my choice to make, in her best interests, as a parent.

LolaSmiles government advice is that if schools don't think its a risk at their school the teachers need to be aware but they dont need to teach it.

It’s not the schools business to instruct children in values and morals - that’s my job, as a parent

You may be a decent parent, but how many prejudiced parents pass on racism and homophobia etc to their children through passing on their own values and morals, is that OK because it's their children? No.

Schools are the only compulsory way to reach the most children. If not taught it in schools, if not instructed on morals and values at school, some children will be left in ignorance or bigotry.

So how is a sugar coated version going to benefit the kids everyone is saying will benefit from learning about it?

In the same way that teaching kids from a very young age that people shouldn't touch their bits. Like this underpants thing by the RSPCA or whatever it is.

The younger the kids learn that fgm is wrong, the better it will be stamped out as they grow up, here, at least. Hopefully.

And that's fine Bertrand but I think there are some really specific things with this and I'm really interested to know how it is all covered with 9yo, or how it would be if it gets moved to ks2, seems at the moment is ks3.

Is there anything else covered that is sex specific in terms of risks? I mean outside of biology.

How would the why be handled in a way that is true and also age appropriate?
How will illegality of fgm vs circumcision be explained?

I am uncomfortable with idea all 9yo must be told this is a risk for girls generally I've got to say.

That is going to present massive barriers in communities where bride's come From small villages, can't speak English, can't integrate and want to cut their daughters, and the men folk want too.

This is where multiculturalism fails, then. If all cultures and cultural norms are to be valued and tolerated and equally good, no one is expected to integrate and even mothers want this for their daughters, who are we to tell them they’re wrong? Who are we to tell them that their practices are barbaric?

FGM happens normally/sometimes happens when girls hit puberty. Your daughter may not need to know about it but there may be some children in her class that do.
Yabu

Yanbu op.. too much too young

I also think there's no need to teach kids that age about sexuality and trans

@LenizarLyublyu

So does the state make a better parent, or the individual? How much input should we actually have into our children’s lives?

Menu I'm not a teacher so I would not like to offer up what I think is age appropriate for a 9 year old. And what's right for one child may not be right for another. The teacher will know their class and know how to pitch it. For example, my own child (6) knows I work in child protection and so probably knows much more than some of his class mates about how some parents can't keep their children safe.

I'm pretty sure at 9 or thereabouts I knew that Jewish boys were circumcised. It certainly didn't give me certain expectations.

I do think that the message of certain cultures being more at risk should be given. It clearly would be wrong for a girl to go home terrified that her parents may take her away for her holiday and she'd suffer FGM.

I do however thjnk that children within those cultures will know about being "cut" by the age of 9, boys and girls. Indeed for many girls it will be too late.

Haven't RTFT but why don't you have a chat with your DD first, OP? Then you can explain things to her gently in a way you find appropriate, so that she is not shocked when she hears it at school. That's what I would/will do.

LolaSmilesgovernment advice is that if schools don't think its a risk at their school the teachers need to be aware but they dont need to teach it.
But they can cover it if they deem it appropriate.

IsabellaLinton
Would you personally like a veto on every PSHE lesson during secondary? Would you like a week by week guide of topics so you can decide what you seem acceptable coverage? After all, it's not for the school to decide their curriculum coverage. What about when they study history and geography and literature, would you like topics discussed sent in advance because you're the parent and so nobody else is placed to comment on lesson content for your child but you?

Schools don't exist to teach just literacy and numeracy. In fact the new Ofsted framework specifically has a section on 'personal development' in which schools have to demonstrate:

• how students learn beyond the formal curriculum, including enrichment
• how they develop students' character including resilience, confidence and independence
• how students can keep themselves 'physically and mentally happy'
• celebrating diversity and respecting protected characteristics enshrined in law

Then under leadership and management schools have the standard safeguarding responsibilities.

"I don’t see how a child knowing about FGM will stop it happening."

They may hear their parents planning a trip and can tell their teacher

Or if it has already happened to them, they can tell a teacher and stop it happening to a younger sister or cousin

It is not practical to give different lessons to millions of children, depending on their ethnicity
but some girls desperately will need this info

It won't be graphic descriptions or videos, maybe they'll just be informed that some people have customs which cut girls, which hurts them and can harm their lives later
So they must tell a teacher if they think this may happen to them or to a friend or family member

Educating about rape won't involve a video of a terrified child or woman being raped by some hulking man

It will be sensitive and age-appropriate

“This is where multiculturalism fails, then. If all cultures and cultural norms are to be valued and tolerated and equally good,”

You really don’t know what multiculturalism means, do you?

When did fgm become a "valued and tolerated custom" ?

I must have been on holiday and missed that

Part of avoiding it happening to new generations is giving more information to girls

“I must have been on holiday and missed that”

Wait til I tell you that we can’t celebrate Christmas any more.......

The ignorance on this thread is astounding. Clearly, some parents dont understand how risk works nor how bringing awareness through education is designed for the majority, not for your individual children. Head in the sand, not in my backyard ect....

9 is a good age.

I know some children have it done younger but there's a lot f evidence that in this country if girls are taken abroad it could well be the summer between primary and secondary school. Something to do with they don't have a trusted/favourite teacher to confide in on return to school.

So if a girl is then told that in the summer we're off on holiday to X country and maybe it's mentioned while you're there you will see a doctor/have a little procedure she might thing, hang on....might this be to do with fgm.

Of course she might get no prior warning but in which case if it does get done when she comes back to the U.K. she will know it was wrong and might feel more confident about telling someone.....which could save any younger siblings from having the same happen.