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Original poster

FGM on year 5 school curriculum

571 replies

MermaidMummy · 07/06/2019 10:27

I'm really not sure if I'm being unreasonable, so I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.
My 9-year-old's class has just started learning about puberty. We have been told that the next lesson will cover terminology such as erection, sperm and female genital mutilation.
I just don't get why they need to learn about FGM at 9 years old. Some of these kids are very "young" for their age, and mine is very sensitive (won't watch the news in case an "adult topic" crops up).
What is the rationale for teaching this in year 5? There is nobody in the class from a cultural background likely to carry out FGM, but even if there was, would a 9 year-old know that it might happen to them and inform a teacher (if that is the rationale for teaching it)? From what I have read they aren't told anything about it in advance. If it has already happened to them, what is the benefit of bringing it up in class? Couldn't it be damaging and stigmatising?

OP posts:
Fibbke · 08/06/2019 11:37

She will know she's not at risk just like she's not at risk of having endless things around her neck or bizzare pricings

So if its something that happens in 'tribes' Confused then why do uk 8 year olds need to even know about it.

BabyAlexander · 08/06/2019 11:37

Many girls absolutely do know it's going to happen to them, maybe not precisely when, but they do know. They won't call it FGM of course but they'll be told about being cut. They have older sisters and cousins who have been subjected to this barbaric act, they talk.

It's not just about educating the girls, it's about educating boys so that they don't insist or expect their future wives to have been subjected to this and don't insist on the same for their daughters.

Fibbke · 08/06/2019 11:38

I think the idea all 9yo in UK learn that this is a risk for all girls

But it absolutely isn't a risk for all girls.

Fibbke · 08/06/2019 11:39

And if you have a 8 year old, how have you introduced the subject?

MenuPlant · 08/06/2019 11:45

I've been asking through the thread how it will be handled that it's not all communities that practice this, without stigmatising any of the children.

A poster has now said that you don't know who might be affected and cited some people in Eastern Europe who have done this and also some ultra Christian USA groups.

So in general the feeling is that it should be taught as a general risk.

Thought though. What of the reaction of boys to this? Does a similar issue apply? At 9yo there may not be sensitivity.

Also I'm really interested in how fgm vs male circumvision will be explained, one legal one not, it will need addressing or what will the boys make of that?

LenizarLyublyu · 08/06/2019 11:46

So if its something that happens in 'tribes' confused then why do uk 8 year olds need to even know about it.

Don't you think 8 year olds should learn about cultures and practices outside of their own - tribes included? The curriculum is very white tbh, many kids get to the end of secondary school without being taught the details of our colonial history and the shit we have caused.

azulmariposa · 08/06/2019 11:47

Children suffer all sorts of abuse at the hands of their parents, yet accept it as normal. They don't figure it out until adulthood even if they know that it's wrong.

By educating them it shows them it's not normal and will allow them a voice to get help. They won't have to wait all those years until they are an adult to know it's wrong.

LenizarLyublyu · 08/06/2019 11:47

If you are a white parent living in a leafy area and posting in favour of fgm lessons, what are you saying to your white middle class 9 year old boys and girls about FGM? Are you sitting them down and explaining what happens and telling them to look out for warning signs among their classmates at school?'

I don't think all the posters who are in favour of this are middle class.

Fibbke · 08/06/2019 11:47

I've been asking through the thread how it will be handled that it's not all communities that practice this, without stigmatising any of the children

And I've asked a lot of other questions with no answers either, i presume because the majority of PPs just like to lay in to an OP and pick a fight with absolutely no dog in the fight themselves. No 8 year olds, no primary age kids, no experience of FGM, probably hadn't even thought about it before yesterday.

IsabellaLinton · 08/06/2019 11:49

I think the idea all 9yo in UK learn that this is a risk for all girls

But it isn’t a risk for all girls, obviously, or even the vast majority.

MenuPlant · 08/06/2019 11:49

Fibbke I did have to tell my older child about it on a train when she was 8, there was a charity poster and she asked about it.

I wish I hadn't had to, to be honest, I found especially the 'why' really difficult but tried to be honest.

I didn't tell her she was at risk though I said it was a cultural practice in some groups

She is 'resilient' but the idea of having her genitals mutilated was shocking to her and outside of anything I think she would have imagined could happen.

I do think some girls could get v worried and upset and that wouldn't be due to a lack of resilience!

BabyAlexander · 08/06/2019 11:50

I guess it's about talking about the long term physical and psychological impacts of FGM, which are far greater than circumcision.

MenuPlant · 08/06/2019 11:52

Baby yes they would have to go into all that, or I would imagine some of the boys would feel really unhappy about it all.

LenizarLyublyu · 08/06/2019 11:54

Or are you leaving it and letting the secondary school introduce it during PSHE?

I'm not saying it should be taught in Year 5, just that if the school wanted to introduce the topic to Year 5s, I wouldn't object because I would assume it was going to be age-approproiate.

woodhill · 08/06/2019 11:54

jelly I couldn't see anything about the cases you have mentioned, could you link.

IsabellaLinton · 08/06/2019 11:54

I've been asking through the thread how it will be handled that it's not all communities that practice this, without stigmatising any of the children

We’re loathe to single out certain cultures or communities so apparently we have to educate all girls as though they’re all equally at risk, which they’re quite obviously not.

MenuPlant · 08/06/2019 11:55

Baby although at age 9 that stuff is quite advanced,

And also would be really upsetting for any girls who had had fgm or had an idea out was coming, how would that be handled. They're 9 they've been cut in school they find out this is not the norm and a load of physical and psychological impacts are presented, that would be awful wouldn't it? I mean not a good way to go about things.

But, you really do need to explain why one is legal and the other not, I think. Or boys will potentially get the message that girls are prioritised over them.

BabyAlexander · 08/06/2019 11:57

Some girls of 9 are very much at risk of FGM, and younger. It's right, in my view, that this should be on the curriculum. Should the curriculum only apply for certain schools in certain areas? I'm not sure it should, how would it cover the new family who may move in over the summer who's girls have been subjected to or at risk of FGM?

I speak as someone who works to protect women and girls from this. Most weeks I receive at least one enquiry about FGM.

If anyone wants to read further I fully recommend Hibo Wardere's book Cut.

LolaSmiles · 08/06/2019 11:58

And I've asked a lot of other questions with no answers either, i presume because the majority of PPs just like to lay in to an OP and pick a fight with absolutely no dog in the fight themselves.
Far from it.
I totally support the OP in asking how such a sensitive and emotive topic will be handled in school. It's a perfectly reasonable question.

My issue lies more with the view of some posters that their personal opinions should dictate school curriculum choices and that teaching issues pertaining to safeguarding is burdening children.

Fibbke · 08/06/2019 11:59

You mean they'd get a happy clappy watered down version of what FGM actually is? Is thst what you mean by age appropriate? How you can think that doesn't create more problems than solve them is amazing. What on earth is wrong with waiting until secondary and being able to talk about it more openly and freely.

BabyAlexander · 08/06/2019 12:00

Menu Of course it should be age appropriate. I'm quite sure women subjected to FGM will have been involved in the training for this. If those girls have been cut they'll already be suffering physical symptoms at least. They may have younger sisters at risk.

Fibbke · 08/06/2019 12:01

My issue lies more with the view of some posters that their personal opinions should dictate school curriculum choices and that teaching issues pertaining to safeguarding is burdening children

It isn't on the curriculum and safeguarding applies to teachers, not pupils.

BabyAlexander · 08/06/2019 12:02

Fibbke Because often by secondary school it's too late. The girls I apply to court to protect are rarely of secondary school age.

BertrandRussell · 08/06/2019 12:03

“What on earth is wrong with waiting until secondary and being able to talk about it more openly and freely.”

Because for the majority of girls who are going to be cut that will be too late.

Drasticaction · 08/06/2019 12:03

Tribe comment meant for that age to show different cultures do all sorts of odd things for 8 year old it might dilute the impact.

However to earlier comment I agree.... it's not risk for all girls at all and I don't think any girls at all are at Risk in my DD school.