FGM on year 5 school curriculum

[MermaidMummy]

I'm really not sure if I'm being unreasonable, so I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.
My 9-year-old's class has just started learning about puberty. We have been told that the next lesson will cover terminology such as erection, sperm and female genital mutilation.
I just don't get why they need to learn about FGM at 9 years old. Some of these kids are very "young" for their age, and mine is very sensitive (won't watch the news in case an "adult topic" crops up).
What is the rationale for teaching this in year 5? There is nobody in the class from a cultural background likely to carry out FGM, but even if there was, would a 9 year-old know that it might happen to them and inform a teacher (if that is the rationale for teaching it)? From what I have read they aren't told anything about it in advance. If it has already happened to them, what is the benefit of bringing it up in class? Couldn't it be damaging and stigmatising?

How will my 9-year-old child knowing about it help the situation?

It's not just about your child. Disgusting things could be happening to any of the kids in school and the teachers have no idea on the face of it who could be being abused, assaulted, mutilated etc...

In my opinion it makes perfect sense to give all children lessons about these things. How else are they going to know, if they are being abused, that what is happening to them isn't right.

If parents are jumping up and down not wanting their kids to be taught certain things it will make it harder to protect them all.

The world isn't a perfect rosy happy place all of the time and it's good that we are no longer burying our heads in the sand and pretending it's not happening.

If all the posters who are so pro 8 year olds being taught about FGM don't check with their local primary and ensure that all year 5s are being taught about it (and male circumcision) then I hope you realise that you are enormously hypocritical keyboard warriors.

Fibbke
Or we trust that our primary colleagues teach PSHE topics in an age appropriate way that's relevant to their cohorts.

Just like my current school will order it's secondary PSHE curriculum, and a former school would cover similar topics but maybe in a different order.

We even (shock horror) adapt our curriculum mid year if we get told by police and social services that certain issues are arising, just like staff pastoral training can change in response to different trends. Or if an issue is raised by charities and a new report comes out, we might adapt around new guidance.

I wouldn't go into a nursery or a university and tell them personal my opinion is worth more than their professional judgement, so won't do the same in primary schools.

“If all the posters who are so pro 8 year olds being taught about FGM don't check with their local primary and ensure that all year 5s are being taught about it (and male circumcision) then I hope you realise that you are enormously hypocritical keyboard warriors.“
Really? Why? And why mention male circumcision? Or circumcision, as I prefer to call it.

How else are they going to know, if they are being abused, that what is happening to them isn't right.
But parents who have subjected their kids to FGM aren't likely to let their kids attend a class on FGM are they?

it's good that we are no longer burying our heads in the sand and pretending it's not happening.

Unfortunately if this thread is anything to go by a lot of people still are burying their heads in the same and also encouraging their children to do the same

But parents who have subjected their kids to FGM aren't likely to let their kids attend a class on FGM are they?

The other kids will still be made aware of the warning signs in case a friend mentions it. You need to stop looking at this at an individual level and instead see the bigger picture.

But parents who have subjected their kids to FGM aren't likely to let their kids attend a class on FGM are they?
No. But kids talk to other kids.
If a parent involved in FGM bullies their child into not speaking to adults about things, often through emotional manipulation, the child won't speak to teachers. But they may talk to their friends.

Surely the idea that kids talk to other kids and might share more with friends than adults isn't a radical idea.

GreytExpectations
I agree. It's like people think 'but that wouldn't happen to my children or my child'. But then people also teach children to be terrified of strangers when they're more likely to be harmed by family or people they know.
Heads in the sand and pretending that bad things happen but to other people's children and other people's children's friends isn't uncommon.

So, again, what are you doing to ensure your local year 5 kids are taught about FGM? As it doesn't appear to actually be on the curriculum.

Yeah, thought so.

So, again, what are you doing to ensure your local year 5 kids are taught about FGM? As it doesn't appear to actually be on the curriculum.
Yeah, thought so.

And yet again, I trust those working in primaries to make the call on their PSHE teaching, not being as arrogant as some on here to think their personal opinion trumps other people's professional judgement.

I don't teach primary. To weigh in on how they do their job would be ridiculous, just like for them to tell me how we do ks4 PSHE would be ridiculous.

And to clarify, the national curriculum is a minimum expectation and only has to be followed by local authority schools (and most schools aren't LA anymore). The 'curriculum' is whatever schools want it to be and needs to fit their contexts. Then there are statutory items regarding safeguarding. Schools have a statutory duty with regards to FGM. It is for them to decide actions in relation to that statutory duty.

Suddenly claiming 'it's not in the curriculum' sounds as silly as 'but my opinion matters more than any professional decisions'.

Fibbke

So, again, what are you doing to ensure your local year 5 kids are taught about FGM? As it doesn't appear to actually be on the curriculum.

Yeah, thought so.

Yes.
And I still haven't received an answer on how they had planned to teach it in an age appropriate way at our school.
If my school is the only one that thought it a good idea to teach it at this age then all the comments on this thread re parents burying heads in sand etc are nonsense. It's to all the other schools who aren't teaching it in year 5 that you need to direct your accusations of irresponsibility regarding knowledge of FGM victims.
It's certainly not my wish to ensure my child knows about barbaric torture at age 9. That's not me burying my head in the sand. She knows to talk to me if she hears anything bad has happened to anyone in her class, without me going into specifics of child molestation, rape, FGM or any else. That is sufficient at her age, and I'm her parent and have a right to make that decision.

And to clarify, for people who haven't read the whole thread, I did not ask the school not to teach it. I asked how they planned to teach it in an age appropriate way. I didn't get a response to that question, but the school have since decided not to teach it in year 5. I know several parents were unhappy about it being taught and I am glad they have been listened to. If other parents are so very desperate for their kids to learn about thus topic at age 9 then teach them yourselves!

Yabu. The more knowledge these children have the more chance there is that at least one child can be protected.

MermaidMummy
Your question to the school on how they plan to explain it was totally reasonable.

The hysteria on this thread about how informing children about what is/isn't ok and to tell an adult is burdening them and placing the responsibility on them, how staff shouldn't teach it and should instead look for 'fucking warning signs', how their children should not be exposed to topics thay don't affect them etc goes to show how head in the sand some people are regarding safeguarding.

In the US there's loads of abstinence only sex ed programmes because obviously their children would never have sex outside of marriage because teens having sex is something for other people's children. It doesn't seem to work.

When there's people who think their opinion and whether they think something is personally relevant to their child shouls be the driving force behind a school's curriculum choices it's really quite worrying.

Well said @LolaSmiles.

OP, you are burying your head in the sand and you are encouraging your dd to do the same. You have a very "Not my child, not my problem" attitude which is very sad to see. YABU but it doesn't matter as you've "won"

If other parents are so very desperate for their kids to learn about thus topic at age 9 then teach them yourselves!

Op, no its not about being desperate to teach the subject. I just care about the welfare of other children and encourage awareness at a young age as a way of helping kids that may be at risk. Obviously you only care about you dd being protected from "scary" subjects even at the expense of other children.

So what if she's burying her head in the sand? Choose your battles. Good advice for robust mental health.

GreytExpectations

OP, you are burying your head in the sand and you are encouraging your dd to do the same. You have a very "Not my child, not my problem" attitude which is very sad to see. YABU but it doesn't matter as you've "won"

I am not burying my head in the sand by wanting my child to learn about such things when she is a bit older. I am not encouraging my child to bury her head in the sand either. She is a very sensitive and anxious person at the best of times. It's my job to protect her first and foremost.

Do you have young children? What have they kearnt about FGM?

'In the US there's loads of abstinence only sex ed programmes because obviously their children would never have sex outside of marriage'

This isn't the reason for abstinence only sex ed in certain USA areas, that is a misread and a massive simplification.

For those saying that its hysterical to teach 9yo about fgm, what about the 'other side' where its been said that 9yo who play with soft toys lack 'resilience'.

I have seen seen now that there must be no assumptions about which children may be at risk so all girls should be taught about it. I don't think it's right to tell all girls in the UK at age 9 their families might mutilate their genitalia. That's just putting a huge fear on loads of children who really aren't at risk. I can't see how that is helpful at all tbh.

That's answered that question though anyway.

The other one was, how will it be handled in the class, to tell the children it is bad for girls genitals to be mutilated, and illegal, but for boys it's legal and they don't need to tell anyone. This needs to be covered, or what will the boys make of it.

Fgm is totally hidden and how you'd find out about it in Islam religious school is beyond me!

We missed Daniel pelka for goodness sake, a starving boy raiding school bins.

It's hidden and nigh on impossible to find out about. .
Opening up discussion I imagine would be most damaging for those girls who have already been done!

How must they feel. But there's nothing else for it but open up discussion and make it clear it's unnecessary, brutal, illegal....

Other abuses have more chance of being found out.

This must be brought into the light.

If you are a white parent living in a leafy area and posting in favour of fgm lessons, what are you saying to your white middle class 9 year old boys and girls about FGM? Are you sitting them down and explaining what happens and telling them to look out for warning signs among their classmates at school?

Op just show your DD pics of tribes with various adornments!

And say.. another cultural thing Is fgm and this is where girls parts are cut.
It's illegal and still happens. End of! She will know she's not at risk just like she's not at risk of having endless things around her neck or bizzare pricings

Hello. Interesting thread. I research/write about 'fgm' at www.shiftingsands.org.uk. Huge topic. Mermaid Mummy is right to raise these concerns. We've been led to believe for years that the practice is at epidemic proportions in UK but not seen/prosecuted 'cause it's a hidden crime. So untrue. The only 'fgm' happening is genital piercings in white caucasian teens. People have moved on. Migration has resulted in broad opposition to FGM in UK & Europe. So children don't need to be 'educated' about it. But the well-funded, influential 'industry' that has grown in regard to it is constantly on the lookout for new ways of 'raising awareness'. Impressionable school kids are targeted via RSE. Teachers should be allowed to teach children and not have them indoctrinated and terrified about diminishing practices like 'fgm'.

Or are you leaving it and letting the secondary school introduce it during PSHE?

'If you are a white parent living in a leafy area and posting in favour of fgm lessons, what are you saying to your white middle class 9 year old boys and girls about FGM? Are you sitting them down and explaining what happens and telling them to look out for warning signs among their classmates at school?'

I think the idea all 9yo in UK learn that this is a risk for all girls.