To think he didn't need to charge me

[memorial]

Yesterday I travelled from Cardiff to London for a birthday treat to see Hugh Jackman bought for me by my sister.
I bought my train tickets in advance at £50.
We had a wonderful time though the £20 train ticket back to my sister's house was galling. And again this morning back to London.
I left my sister's house in plenty of time (according to TFL planner). But of course the train was stuck at a red light for 10/15 mins and the tubes were awfully slow.
I raced into the station just to see the train doors closing. Never mind I think it's super off peak midweek I'll get the next train in half an hour.
So I do. Scan my ticket at the gates and settle down for the journey. A busy but not full train with no seat reservations.
About 10 mins in a rather brusque ticket collector comes round. I show him my ticket and he gets quite aggressive loudly telling me I need to buy a ticket. I am genuinely gobsmacked and explain what happened.
He points out (rudely and very loudly) that my ticket was an advance single and only valid on the train I missed.
I am very apologetic and say I usually buy a super off peak and didn't even realise this and again explain how I just missed the train.
He again very loudly and rudely says I can buy a ticket or get off with a fine. He really is talking to me like I am a criminal fare dodger.
So I pay another £50 close to tears. What a horrible end to a lovely birthday treat.
So while I accept that my ticket wasn't valid, did he really need to be so rude and aggressive and surely he could have used a bit of discretion. I clearly wasn't trying to take the piss.
Feeling really sad and disappointed. Have spent £140 on train tickets plus tube and feel like a naughty school child.

Ok. I worked in the rail industry. As far as buying the ticket. you should read the relevant rules when buying and should know the restrictions. but having said that. there was mitigation in that other trains were late making sure you missed the train you were meant to be on. which means that the TOC should let you on another train. I would have gone to the ticket office to make official complaints about the late running train making you miss the correct train. they then will re issue a ticket allowing you to complete the hourney without fuirther charge. I would make an official complaint to the TOC giving them all the evidence. and also complain about the Guard. whatever the problem they should not raise their voice or appear aggresive. they do have a job to do but do have training to cope with problems and should not behave like that. and mention you will let the media know about it if you are not dealt with properly. The Guard also should have let you know you can get the fine refunded. I hope you get your money back. But be nice and Polite but firm.

And for anyone else who finds themselves in this position use Trainline. It shows all journey times and connections for previous journeys. So you can show your connection
for your train was delayed.

The guard was wrong. The OP is entitled to a full refund, possibly on both tickets and needs to put a complaint in. Mainly to prevent other passengers being ripped off.

He shouldn't have been rude, but one person's rude is another's firm and clear.

Anyway, I've missed connections before because of late trains and gone into the ticket office and explained. They've always authorised the ticket for the next bit of the journey.

The fact that you can’t get your head round people behaving like this, I can only think you are either quite young or had a charmed life.

Nope, wrong. I can certainly "get my head around" rude people as its happened to me. The OP's general attitude is why i doubt her.

I've never heard anyone who's been challenged over the validity of their ticket/asked to buy a new one say that the guard was anything other than rude/obnoxious/aggressive. I once had a completely civil conversation with a guy who didn't have his actual ticket, he bought a new one, I chatted with him and his friends when I passed during their 3 hour journey, they said thanks as they got off and a few weeks later I got told there'd been a complaint that I was rude and aggressive. Who'd have thought it.

Next time try to get your ticket refunded before getting the train home, I've missed trains in London before due to the tube and have been refunded after they checked my oyster card

Every ticket inspector I have come across has had an angry aggressive tone and act as if they are the police lol. This happened to me last week where I was early for my train and a man at the information desk informed me I could get on an earlier train. However when the ticket inspector came she was shouting and nearly screaming at me for not having a valid ticket after explaining I was ill advised. She even threatened to call the police unless I show her my drivers licence -- I got a £90 fine that I am obviously contesting. I would just write to them contesting the fine. About 95% of the time they let you off because TFL can't be asked to argue with you.

There was no need for him to be horrible and intimidating - I would complain, you might get some travel vouchers.

You are entitled to take the next available train if you were delayed by the railway* on an advance ticket. However your itinerary has to be valid in the first place and take into account station connection times, eg paddington’s connection time is 20 minutes so if you changed trains at Paddington your itinerary would have to leave 20 minutes transfer time for this. This goes for every station/train change along your route.

Unfortunately tube delays don’t count unless your ticket includes tube travel or there are severe delays on the underground. The conditions of 'Advance' tickets DO allow you to travel later if you are delayed on an earlier train, but for this condition, the London Underground is not considered to be 'a train'.

Most ticket inspectors are fine. But some do have a power complex.

My Ds has special needs. He's visibly, learning disabled and supported everywhere outside of the home.

One of his small wins in life is he sits by himself on public transport and deals with his own ticket. He can do this perfectly fine but can struggle to understand. I've lost count of the number of times I've stepped in when guards have been patronising or downright bullying. One jumped 10 foot in the air when I stepped in as he was trying to get my son to move from the disabled seat on a busy train (( physically my son is fine. But he does need the extra space as a result of PTSD from being attacked )) and again. He instantly presents with a young man with a disability. He wasn't quite so cocky when I pointed out that my son is disabled and has a right to those seats. Unlike the suitcases he was trying to stick there.

As I said most guards are fine. But some are awful. And refuse to use common sense when things like train delays happen........which is ridiculous considering how shambolic our rail service is.

I am with you Op - he should have used dies region. The amount of times I have had to wait for cancelled trains, arrived late due to this (and then have to listen cheerily to the blah blah apologises for the inconvenience) - it works both ways - genuine mistake, already paying overpriced rail fares compared to most of Europe - I would make claim on the late train and write a complaint!

The exact same thing happened to my son, they have absolutely no customer training as the ticket officer behaved in such an aggressive manner. The train companies don’t care- they know they are the only ones providing that route/service and take full advantage if the fact.

I find train tickets and times that you can and cannot board massively confusing. Trainline is unhelpful. But I did manage to speak to an actual person recently re a rail trip. He was lovely. Sorry you got a rude person.

Boomers are in their 70s and categorically not middle aged

So true, I'm as old as my head so I'll stay at 35 forever. A firend decided that at 60 she was going to start counting backwards!

I imagine that in his job you start of being nice, sympathetic and trusting the great British public, but after you have heard the same excuse a hundred times, have been verbally abused and called every name under the sun you stop giving people the benefit of the doubt and don't really care if fare Dodgers, accidental or not, are publicly called out on their fair dodging.

What, so because some people dodge train fares it’s OK to treat everybody as a criminal? Nice.

Actually, I’d imagine that working as a conductor makes you more able to judge who is a chancer and who is a genuine victim of circumstances. The Welsh conductor who posted earlier in the thread said this in her posts: she uses discretion appropriately.

I think that some people must be attracted to that career because of the opportunities to finger wag and boss people around, though. I’ve met a few of those. One of the younger conductors near where I live is fond of striding down the aisle shouting, “tickets and excuses, please!”. That’s quite funny the first time around, but after the tenth time I think, hang on, I pay £14 a day to get to work on a train with insufficient seats that is often late, why do I have to be suspected of criminal activity every day?

Another conductor, who must have seen me every day for the last three years, came down the train checking tickets and I couldn’t find my monthly pass because I had loads of bags of shopping and had shoved it in a pocket. When I looked for it he said, loudly, on a packed train, “Oh, the old pocket pat trick!”

I found my pass, in one of my pockets, but where does he get off, suggesting publicly that I’m dishonest because I couldn’t produce a ticket within five seconds? Shaming me was inappropriate, just as it was inappropriate for the OP to be on the receiving end of confrontational behaviour from the inspector on her train. Why the aggression? Why presume that everybody is a liar and a thief?

What do you expect the ticket inspector to do? JUdge people by appearance/accent to decide who is a "criminal" and who isn't?

"young man with working class accent standing up for himself" fare dodging.

"Frumpy middle class woman speaking in a quiet voice" not fare dodging.

Remember Cherie Booth? Or the city banker who fare dodged for years?

Unless they either start issuing inspectors with lie detector tests or let anyone who wants to travel on whatever train they fancy the inspector has no option but to assume the worst. I'm sure they do use their discretion sometimes, on this occasion he chose not to.

What do you expect the ticket inspector to do? JUdge people by appearance/accent to decide who is a "criminal" and who isn't?

"young man with working class accent standing up for himself" fare dodging.

"Frumpy middle class woman speaking in a quiet voice" not fare dodging.

Remember Cherie Booth? Or the city banker who fare dodged for years?

Unless they either start issuing inspectors with lie detector tests or let anyone who wants to travel on whatever train they fancy the inspector has no option but to assume the worst. I'm sure they do use their discretion sometimes, on this occasion he chose not to.

What I, and any sensible person, would expect is for train conductors to behave in a civilised manner and give people a chance to politely explain before jumping in with the public vilification and aggression.

Is that weird?

Train pricing is crazy.
8:30 train from Stansted, valid all trians
9.:30 train from Stansted, valid only on that train.

However both tickets cost the same so if your flight's in a bit early, it does happen, you can't get the earlier train, you have to wait until 9:30 because that's what your ticket says. The trick is to buy for the 8:30, miss it and get the 9:30.

I struggle to see why a sensible person would expect to be allowed to travel on a train service without a valid ticket just because they are a middle class professional.

There is a rule. It should apply to everyone. This leaves far less room for (unconscious) bias and discrimination.

The OP is likely to be able to get a full refund if she fills in the form. I really don't see the issue.

No, you have deliberately misunderstood. My argument is that any passenger, middle class or otherwise, deserves courtesy and a chance to explain why they are on the wrong train before the conductor starts laying into them publicly, accusing them of theft and deceit.

Why is that unreasonable? It doesn’t matter how many fare dodgers the conductor has encountered before. Why does that negate the need for courtesy and respect at the start of the conversation?

"Public vilification and aggression"

She knew and admitted her ticket was not valid.
According to the OP he repeated her options to her . Several times because according to her thread title she doesn't think paying for a valid ticket applies to her.