To think manners seem to be taking a serious hit these days?

[Graphista]

I'm mainly thinking of on the phone as I'm currently housebound but I'm very interested to hear from other less restricted mners and I've noticed several threads where this could apply.

I've had a few "official" calls this week - all from withheld numbers - not ONE introduced themselves/told me who was calling until I finally got a word in to ask! That's another thing they blethers on with what they were calling to say taking barely a breath for check they were talking to the right person.

2 of the calls were regarding medication which was very confusing as I wasn't sure from the way they were talking if it was my GP surgery, pharmacy or hospital pharmacy that were calling! Which made a difference in how I responded. When i asked who was calling I got no apology or acknowledgement of the confusion caused they simply stated who was calling!

I've also had to make a couple of calls and on 2 occasions the person answering didn't even speak! Just waited for me to!

All calls I'm referencing were me and an official organisation/company not personal calls, though I still think there's a certain level of politeness needed for personal calls.

I was taught from a young age that:

if you are calling someone you say who you are, ask for whom you wish to speak with - including saying PLEASE - and then ease into the conversation.

If you are answering a call you say hello (at the very least!) state where the caller has reached (unless a personal call to mobile) give your name "Sharon speaking" and then listen as the caller introduces themselves etc.

I also have an intercom door buzzer.

it's not the safest neighbourhood, we've had break ins in the block and been warned several times by the landlords to be cautious who we admit to the block...

Yet numerous times the buzzer has gone and when I've answered...no response or "lemme in!!" When I've asked who's there I've had a variety of responses from "xx deliveries" (eventually!) to "fuck off! It's none of your business. Just let me in!"

To which I don't buzz them in and hang up!

I was discussing with dd and she thinks I'm a bit old fashioned on the phone thing excepting where it causes confusion or is blatantly rude like not saying ANYTHING when answering a call.

I'm curious what mners think/experiences are.

Agree with you tbh.
Especially if calling in a professional capacity.

Some of my work colleagues are IMO very abrupt over the phone, to the point of rudeness - and that's local government.

Yes I've noticed it with local council too.

Particularly annoying with them is if they tell you they're transferring you to another dept and then cut you off! Don't know what system they're using but it's bloody annoying and happens far too often!

Definitely very abrupt too. I once asked a question, got a plain "no" and they hung up! I had more than one query which I had stated at the beginning of the call!

I think I agree with your daughter. When calling I'd ask politely for who I want to speak to but I wouldn't introduce myself. When answering the phone I literally just say 'Hello?' I don't tell them where they're calling or who they're talking to (I assume they know!). I don't really know anyone else who does this and when companies do it I find it a little bit annoying like I don't care who you are just get to the point!

One thing I find annoying is when people ring me from large organisations (like social services or the NHS), presumably from offices, they let the phone ring about three times and then ring off. It does not seem to occur to them that people at home, are not sitting at a desk about 18 inches from a phone - and that sometimes, you have to run down the stairs to answer the phone; only to find they have rung off!

I think I agree with you on the intercom thing. But with telephones perhaps your daughter has a point. I don’t think it’s necessarily impolite, just a different kind of etiquette for the modern world.

What I find rude is when people ring you and then interrogate you as to who you are and ask for identifying details without explaining who they are.

I usually tell them that they rang me, so should know that information - as it's usually unsolicited shit not worth my time.

I was taught it was RUDE to put CAPITALS in the middle of text.

"but I wouldn't introduce myself" why not?

"When answering the phone I literally just say 'Hello?' I don't tell them where they're calling or who they're talking to (I assume they know!)." Really? Not even your first name? What if they've rung the wrong number?

"I don't really know anyone else who does this and when companies do it I find it a little bit annoying like I don't care who you are just get to the point!" But part of the point is that who's calling you is relevant. What if you don't want to speak to that company? Or again if they have the wrong number? Or especially if it's a nuisance/sales call?

"One thing I find annoying is when people ring me from large organisations (like social services or the NHS), presumably from offices, they let the phone ring about three times and then ring off. It does not seem to occur to them that people at home, are not sitting at a desk about 18 inches from a phone - and that sometimes, you have to run down the stairs to answer the phone; only to find they have rung off!" Yes I find that incredibly annoying too. Even to my mobile - I'm not glued to it! I might be washing dishes and need to dry my hands, or be briefly in another room... Have some bloody patience!

"I don’t think it’s necessarily impolite, just a different kind of etiquette for the modern world." See I think certain things are basics. Who's calling and making sure you're talking to the right person are, I think, basic necessary information.

"What I find rude is when people ring you and then interrogate you as to who you are and ask for identifying details without explaining who they are." Totally agree, have found these are usually nuisance callers.

"I was taught it was RUDE to put CAPITALS in the middle of text." Really? Why on earth would that be rude? It's a style of writing that's all I use it on mn for EMPHASIS because it's easier than the faff to bold or italics and italics don't show particularly well on mn.

"I was taught it was RUDE to put CAPITALS in the middle of text." Really? Why on earth would that be rude? It's a style of writing that's all I use it on mn for EMPHASIS because it's easier than the faff to bold or italics and italics don't show particularly well on mn.

Easy to bold and effective as well.

WRITING IN BLOCK CAPITALS IS SHOUTING, and it's rude. But in email etiquette, online chats and/or forum posts, writing in capitals is the online equivalent of shouting. It's rude, so best not to do it unless you really do want to shout at someone.

Sometimes SHOUTINGS is very effective

I personally find bolding on mn a pain

I agree with you OP but I blame all the cold calls. When I call somebody I introduce myself and ask for a person I want to speak to, if I can’t then I state the reason for calling asking for a call back or convenient time to call.
I receive so many phone calls offering me all sorts of services and fraud that it’s difficult to not to answer the phone without annoyance. I have a caller ID and registered with TPS but still receive them. I have to answer the phone as one of us is under medical care.

We have intercom and I refuse to let people in if I don't recognise them or they won't tell me who they are/what they want etc.

We pay a lot of money for the use of this damned intercom and we wish people would just ring the right number. It's only six effing flats.

Frenchboule I too am on tps and still get way too many nuisance calls. Like you I can't not answer as most Nhs calls are number witheld and I have my own health issues plus sick relatives. It's really annoying. I wish I could block all international incoming calls and that there was tech to stop international nuisance callers appearing on caller ID to have a local or other uk number.

Kissuntil I don't have to pay for intercom, there's only 8 flats and so I don't think it's asking too much for callers to introduce themselves.

But while I'm housebound currently I also remember bad manners in other areas too, eg checkout assistants not speaking or looking you in the eye, people letting doors go in my face etc

I don’t get many phone calls OP but I find some shop assistants really rude. I used to work in a shop myself and we were taught to be really polite, customer is boss, etc. Nowadays many act as if they’re doing you a favour! (Blimey I sound like I’m 95. Actually I’m in my 40s.)

If it's obviously someone calling to sell me something (I recognise the numbers of most people who call) I pick up the phone and remain silent. This usually makes them go away. I assume if it was someone who actually wanted to speak to me they would say 'hello... hello... is that Mountain'. It might be rude but cold callers are being rude by calling me uninvited and assuming I am free to listen to their spiel.

I'm also in my 40's and also have worked in retail including customer service - complaints - desks.

I've also been a waitress and restaurant manager.

Yes some customers can be a nightmare but I too have definitely noticed far ruder customer facing staff.

One incident I complained about she was gossiping to colleagues about her weekend (including gruesome details of ons and this was on a Friday afternoon just after schools let out!) completely ignoring me, processed my basket and scanned several items twice in error. I had thought while it was happening that perhaps they hadn't scanned properly, when she'd finished she didn't even say what the bill was but just shoved an outstretched hand at me! I asked how much it was - she STILL didn't speak to me but turned the little screen with the amount on around and pointed aggressively at that! As it was nearly double what I was expecting (my maths isn't great but I do an approximate tot up as I'm shopping as I'm on a tight budget) at which point I said

"That doesn't look right can you please check"

Her response "That's what till says it is you have to pay that!"

At this point I asked for a supervisor to be called over. She tried to stop that from happening until we reached a point where I was saying I'd go find one myself!

She rang the bell for the supervisor and her friends vanished, supervisor came over, checked the amount. Saw the mistakes and cancelled the transaction and put it through herself. I paid and left the shop.

Then belatedly realised how appalling her actions were and pissed off I was and I went back in and asked to speak to the manager. (The supervisor seemed too soft to deal with her)

I explained what had happened and at first there was a bit of "I'm sure it wasn't that bad" at which point I said they should check their own cctv which was clearly focused on the tills, I agreed to wait while manager did this and he came back very apologetic, not only due to the cctv but he had bumped into another supervisor who had told him other customers had witnessed and also complained - particularly about the content of their conversation! I got a load of vouchers too.

Dreadful behaviour, and yes that's definitely a rare and particularly bad example.

But I've certainly had several instances of them not paying attention, not asking for payment politely if at all (the hand thrust at me or attention being drawn to the card machine in grumpy silence), orders in cafes and restaurants taking far too long but no apology when it is brought out, getting orders wrong and no apology - or worse accusing you of having ordered what they brought and claiming I was in the wrong!

Several times I've witnessed retail staff trying to rip my dd off! Or just plain being bloody rude to her thinking that they can get away with it because she's a young girl!

Someone at some point will come on with whataboutery I'm sure "everyone's entitled to a bad day" "it's a thankless nmw job no wonder they get fed up"

No that's no excuse. I've dealt with a lot of bad customers, the way to deal with them isn't to be rude or aggressive back but to take the wind out of their sails or certainly to at least ensure your own arse is covered by being on best behaviour.

I'm also an ex nurse so I've experienced assault, been spat at, vomited on etc - which isn't acceptable behaviour from them - but my being rude or aggressive to them wouldn't have been acceptable either.

Mountain as I'm with tps generally with nuisance callers I play along until I have the info required to make a report and then tell them they've called illegally I'm not interested not to call again. If they're rude or aggressive i have no qualms in telling them to fuck off!

As an NHS worker all our calls are withheld numbers and we are told not to identify ourselves until we have confirmed that we are speaking to the patient. Its a nightmare because many people, not unreasonablely, want to know who is calling before they give their details and many have phones set up not to receive calls from withheld numbers.

I'm told its just in case there is someone who doesn't want family members to know they are being seen at a hospital but surely those people would just give a mobile number. Its a hideous system to work with for the sake of a tiny minority of people.

Graphista, we have a BT Callminder phone, it has reduced our 5-10 unsolicited calls per day to precisely Zero. It filters out every spoof number, every unrecognised number not in our phone directory in the phone. It's the most transformative piece of kit ever!

I feel your pain re poor telephone manners and manners in general. It's the modern disease. We were brought up to say, (tel number) + good morning/afternoon. Now it's a grunt at best. Shops it's "y'right mate". People spend life stuck on a screen and don't develop their social skills.

Glad you got some vouchers for the appalling way you were treated. Unless you stand your ground people will try to fob you off.

I don’t introduce myself until I know who is calling me. Why should I? They called me, they should introduce themselves, and if they don’t I just wait for a break in their spiel and say ‘whose calling?’ Then hang up if it’s about that accident I didn’t have.
It’s a bit funny, you complaining about bad manners and then saying you are going to carry on shouting because you are too lazy to find a different way to emphasise instead of block caps.

I completely agree Graphista
A private telephone should always be answered with one's name. I usually just say "hello, OhTheRoses speaking" unless I know who is calling, when I say straightaway "hello Claire/Jane"

At work I had to introduce a "house style" because people (especially early careerists are so sloppy). Good morning, x department, Jane speaking, how may I help you).

Have also had to din into people email etiquette. Keep it formal and polite and never ever make a negative comment.

Sales calls to my home are met with I am sorry but I don't take unsolicited calls, where did you get my number which is invariably followed by a click.

Generally I find people very helpful. Especially the lady at the council who found my tree preservation order immediately when my solicitor was being kept waiting.

It surprises me that NHS/pharmacy staff launch in. I'd have thought they woukd have to be mindful of data protection and GDPR.

Calling someone you know on a mobile is very different to calling a stranger on a landline. The latter is a separate skill which probably needs to be taught to new workers.

I live abroad. Everyone makes calls in the same way - if your the caller you say:

Surname, first name here, greetings! (Or hello, or good morning) and then state your business or ask to speak to a specific person.

Answering the phone at home people just say their surname and wait for the caller to initiate using the formula above. Answering at work people always state the workplace and who's speaking and say greetings.

Even my 8 year old makes calls this way, as do all his friends. It's very charming and I always want to giggle when a small child calls and says "Smith, Oliver here, good afternoon, I'm calling to speak to Harry" (though they aren't saying that in English)

We live in an area with terrible mobile reception and houses with thick walls in which there is often no mobile reception even when there's network reception outdoors, so maybe landline use is key.

People who only use mobiles forget that a phone might be answered by various people, and isn't a direct brain to brain link...

*you're