To think manners seem to be taking a serious hit these days?

[Graphista]

I'm mainly thinking of on the phone as I'm currently housebound but I'm very interested to hear from other less restricted mners and I've noticed several threads where this could apply.

I've had a few "official" calls this week - all from withheld numbers - not ONE introduced themselves/told me who was calling until I finally got a word in to ask! That's another thing they blethers on with what they were calling to say taking barely a breath for check they were talking to the right person.

2 of the calls were regarding medication which was very confusing as I wasn't sure from the way they were talking if it was my GP surgery, pharmacy or hospital pharmacy that were calling! Which made a difference in how I responded. When i asked who was calling I got no apology or acknowledgement of the confusion caused they simply stated who was calling!

I've also had to make a couple of calls and on 2 occasions the person answering didn't even speak! Just waited for me to!

All calls I'm referencing were me and an official organisation/company not personal calls, though I still think there's a certain level of politeness needed for personal calls.

I was taught from a young age that:

if you are calling someone you say who you are, ask for whom you wish to speak with - including saying PLEASE - and then ease into the conversation.

If you are answering a call you say hello (at the very least!) state where the caller has reached (unless a personal call to mobile) give your name "Sharon speaking" and then listen as the caller introduces themselves etc.

I also have an intercom door buzzer.

it's not the safest neighbourhood, we've had break ins in the block and been warned several times by the landlords to be cautious who we admit to the block...

Yet numerous times the buzzer has gone and when I've answered...no response or "lemme in!!" When I've asked who's there I've had a variety of responses from "xx deliveries" (eventually!) to "fuck off! It's none of your business. Just let me in!"

To which I don't buzz them in and hang up!

I was discussing with dd and she thinks I'm a bit old fashioned on the phone thing excepting where it causes confusion or is blatantly rude like not saying ANYTHING when answering a call.

I'm curious what mners think/experiences are.

Graphista it is rather ironic that you assure us you take the wind out of rude people's sails by being on your best behaviour a couple of lines before writing that you have no qualms about telling people to fuck off!

TBH OP you sound like you just like to moan! Shop assistants, people letting doors go, people on the phone, nuisances calls.

I live in the same world as you and don't experience half the things you experience on an ongoing basis in a whole year.

Currently my husband is in a wheelchair due to an operation, I've experienced nothing but people going out of their way to help. Cars always stopping to let us cross, people opening doors. letting us go first. He has had tons of NHS calls and contact and everyone has been polite, informative and able to conduct a perfectly good telephone conversation .

We have TPS, unsolicited calls vastly reduced, but yours haven't?

You've experienced lots of retail staff trying to rip
Off your daughter or being rude to her? Really! More than anyone else in the world, because i rarely get served by rude staff, very rarely and can count on one hand in my life they've tried to "rip me off".

And retail staff put up with loads of shit from rude customers, much more than they give out.

My DH is stuck at home at the moment which gives him time to think, I'm glad to say I don't get home and he tells me he's been thinking about all the rude people about.

Whilst you're stuck at home I'd take up reading or crosswords etc, sitting analysing how rude everyone else is it's just going to make you snippy.

The not bolding previous PPs statements also make your posts hard to follow. Of course you won't change this as it is to much of a faff. Why should you modify your behaviour eh?

TBH you sound like bloody hard work, you don't care if you're rude and YOU CAN WRITE IN CAPITALS because you want to, even though it comes across as rude...

I never answer my mobile with more then a hello to a withheld or known number. I don't know who they are, for me they are most likely a telesales or cold caller and I'm not giving them more information then i need too. As soon as i know they are my garage, doctor or dentist I'll confirm who i am.

Work phone is always answered with 'hello, X speaking'.

Do you know what else I feel is really adding to the lack of manners in society? Alexa and Alexa type systems. "Alexa do this, Alexa do that" no please or thank you required.

I worry what this will do to manners (or lack of) in the future, as it's the younger generation who are mostly using these devices.

I know it sounds silly but I think it's a genuine concern.

Iamgoingtobehonestwithyou I actually agree. Being rude to a computer algorithm seems not to matter, but it instils the whole "why should I?" attitude. Ironically the same attitudeGraphista expresses in her reluctance to observe internet forum etiquette and use the * before and after words to hold them rather than be perceived as rude for capitalising words.

Why should I? Is I think the problem.

Why should I say please, why should I hold the door, why should I pick up my litter and carry it to a bin, why should I give up my seat to someone less able to stand/ balance, why should I let the person with 1 item go ahead of me at the till, why should I say hello and smile, why should I help the frail elderly lady with her suitcase, why should I ... do anything not actually explicitly required by law or by my employer under the terms of my contract?

Why indeed? Hopefully most people actually know why they should...

I wonder if there is a market for an Alexa thing that insists on good manners.

SnuggyBuggy it should certainly be an option under parental controls

It's ironic also that some people who insist on claiming out dated etiquette (written email mail thank you letters for example) are "basic manners" utterly fail to use far more basic day to day manners like saying please and thank you in everyday life, avoiding blocking entrances and exits and being considerate in public spaces where possible, using a pleasant or at least neutral tone of voice, and not ever telling anyone to "fuck off" ...

I'd love a really posh Alexa that corrected my bad grammar when asking questions

I also agree I've met a lot of people who consider themselves hot on etiquette but as human beings seem a bit morally bankrupt

I think it is a bit old fashioned to expect all of that on the phone. I live in Germany now and it's very much expected to introduce yourself on the phone and it took me a while to get used to it. People answer with their name so "Frau Botts" (Or just Botts) and if you say "Hello?" instead people get all confused/flustered and you end up in a Hallo? Hallo? tennis until somebody says their name.

I saw a tip to "rename" Alexa to "Alexa please" - apparently it encourages the use of full sentences :o "Alexa, please play some music" "Alexa, please tell me the weather forecast" etc.

Alexa already has a setting that encourages good manners. No idea how to set it up but I remember seeing it on the news last year.

SnuggyBuggy - I think that's ridiculous! Perfectly normal if answering a landline phone and upon being asked for X person to expect to know who's calling!

DaisyChain thank you. I don't use my landline, my parents use that phone you mention. I wish there were an app that provided a similar service on mobiles!

Yogi I really don't think using caps is rude it's not literal shouting it's not harming anyone.

I kinda get what you're saying about not wanting to give your name to potential cold callers/nuisance callers but is a "hello" really too much? And in the case of someone calling you I've said in op that the caller should identify themselves

Ohtheroses your experience doesn't surprise me at all!

Yes I've noticed email quality seriously deteriorating to - not just from a manners/politeness perspective but some plain don't make sense!!

"It surprises me that NHS/pharmacy staff launch in. I'd have thought they woukd have to be mindful of data protection and GDPR." I did pull them up on this aspect! I do not want my medical confidentiality breached!!

"People who only use mobiles forget that a phone might be answered by various people, and isn't a direct brain to brain link..." I don't think "but I'm calling your mobile" is an acceptable excuse especially by large organisations because they could have called the wrong number or the person they're calling could have changed their number and someone else now has their number.

Long story but my number used to be dds and vice versa, the amount of nuisance calls I get for dd (who when she last had this number was 14!) trying to sell her credit cards and loans is ridiculous!

"it is rather ironic that you assure us you take the wind out of rude people's sails by being on your best behaviour a couple of lines before writing that you have no qualms about telling people to fuck off!" No irony really I just have no problem being rude to scammers and thieves.

Mybigsis - glad your experience is different. Doesn't mean mine isn't nor that it's not real.

With tps it made a huge improvement initially but in about the last year it's got much worse.

The incidents I cite are not all recent but in the last few years, with the exception of the phone calls that prompted the thread. I'm not a moaner - I've nobody to moan to for starters! And even when I do have people to talk to we discuss a wide variety of things but this thread is about poor manners so I've given examples of such. Which yes I am noticing are happening more frequently.

"And retail staff put up with loads of shit from rude customers, much more than they give out." I used to agree with that, I'm not sure it's still as true and it's no excuse. The job requires good customer service skills, if someone can't manage basic manners like saying hello, asking politely for the money owed or saying please and thank you they shouldn't be doing the job.

I'm going to stab a guess that you're a retail worker?

Iamgoingtobe - I agree. It encourages and normalises lack of certain manners. Good there's a setting for good manners but I suspect the people that would switch this on already have good manners.

@Graphista no I'm not I work in an 9/5 office environment, I'm professionally qualified. Not sure what relevance that has.

I however treat everyone with respect unlike sone people who feel retail worked do t deserve respect.

You really do need to bold PPs comments, it's difficult to read otherwise .... oh no you don't need to, but the world around you should conform to your requirements.

To be honest going back to a shop, making them find the CCTV footage, waiting for all that ..... you've too much time on your hands.

I was at a local cash and carry yesterday, I forgot my card and number so asked the staff member at the reception if she could book me in and get me a spare card. She said 'No, I'm doing this'.
That's it, she never said how long she'd be, when I could pop back, if anyone else could help, all of which have happened in the past and are perfectly reasonable things to happen if said member of staff is unable to help at that point.
So I went in and started my shop, waited 10 mins and popped back, I asked if she was able to book me in yet, she didnt even look up and said no.
I was livid, thankfully I asked another member of staff who did it as soon as she was free. I did mention what had happened and she even said that she could have taken details and booked me in etc as soon as she was finished or just told me when to go back.

I work with customers and often find Im asked stuff when busy and sometimes I cant do stuff straight away for them but manage to get stuff sorted for them some how.

I was more angry at the fact that if I had been that rude to my customers they would simply just go somewhere else and our business would suffer but in my situation I didnt really have that luxury so have to put up with it.

On the other hand I also see rudeness on a day to day basis from my own customers to and I do agree that a lot of people do lack manners. I could offer loads of other stories like this but it would get a bit depressing!!

I didn't ask them to check the cctv it was suggested as a way to try and refute what I was saying.

It's not a requirement to bold others comments and many on mn don't if it's making the thread too difficult for you then it's your choice whether to participate.

I've made it very clear I've worked in retail and other customer facing roles myself I absolutely don't think that merely inhabiting such a role deems someone less worthy of respect - but I do think those who inhabit such roles need to respect customers!

Which in the examples I cited/am thinking of didn't happen and there was absolutely no reason for it not to happen.

Quiet - exactly. There was no need for her to be so abrupt.

And I'm sure you do get rude customers I'm well aware they exist, I've never said otherwise.

Unfortunately it seems too many companies/organisations don't expect manners/certain standards from employees.

If a call I don't recognise comes through, I just say "Hello" and see if they ask me who I am, in which case I will give my name only. If it turns out to be a sales call, I just hang up, and if they ring back, I ignore.

I never tell people who I am straight away when I ring someone - usually it's for finance or something or an appointment, in which case I say "Hi, I'd like to do XYZ" and then they say "Great, and your name is?" And then I'll give it. If I say it straight at the start of the call they usually forget it and ask you again anyway.

As for, what if they have the wrong number?
Person A: Hello?
Person B: Hello?
Person A: Is than Anne?
Person B: No it's not you have the wrong number sorry.

Easy

I called an airline helpdesk recently to help a relative who had lost their log-in details and couldn't access a boarding pass. The woman was quite helpful and reset the details until I said, "would you mind just holding for a second while I check if that works?" She then bellowed down the phone at me, "Ma'am, there is NO reason for me to be on hold" and hung up the phone.

I think part of the problem is that people play the part of steps in a process rather than actually having any kind of human connection. I agree, I think it's got worse.

I do agree people can be rude and it’s irritating, but I also think life is too short and I try to let things go - I think personally how you handled the supermarket incident was a bit OTT, you already spoke to the supervisor but then you left the store - came back - and then went through the whole thing again with a manager - I just couldn’t have the energy!
Sometimes I get wound up by things like that but I try to let it go, I feel less stressed and calmer when I can move past it and not dwell. After all you can only control your own behaviour, not those around you.

I agree that people calling you on the phone need to identify themselves. It is disorienting when someone launches into some long discourse and you have no idea who they are, who they think they are talking to, and what it is all about.

Although I was taught to identify myself when answering the phone, I never do this now if the caller has not identified themselves first.

Time and technology has moved on - in the past you would be reasonably certain that the caller was unlikely to be a scammer. I don't want to provide them with additional information. I also don't want to trigger any call queuing systems the cold callers/scammers might have in operation that is voice triggered.

at which point I said they should check their own cctv

I* didn't ask them to check the cctv it was suggested as a way to try and refute what I was saying.*

You've stated both so which one was it?

The incidents I cite are not all recent but in the last few years, with the exception of the phone calls that prompted the thread

So it's not these days as your title indicates?

As my mum would've said you're a moaning Minnie!

I 100% agree OP and I’m a millennial. I find dealing with officialdom tiresome as they are so incredibly rude to the point of it interfering with do their job I.e their ability to listen and act accordingly. Being cut off after half a sentence is my personal favourite, as is using coercive and bullying language if you (extremely!!!) gently challenge what they are saying.

I think the trouble with a service economy is not everyone has good people or customer skills. A lot of people working on tills or reception desks probably aren't suited to the job.

44Hunt the 2 phone calls regarding meds barely registered they were through to the right person before launching into a long monologue about why they were calling. I had to ask them to slow down and repeat themselves as I was confused.

Imogen that's ridiculous! They wouldn't let you take a few seconds to double check!

Sparkle I genuinely felt the service was so poor it needed addressing. It wasn't a supermarket though.

Mybigsis - they suggested it in such a way as they didn't think I'd take them up on it but I did because I wasn't being called a liar.

These days as I'm sure you well know means in recent times

"I.e their ability to listen and act accordingly. Being cut off after half a sentence is my personal favourite" I hate this - also something that male employees seem particular prone to - talking over you. I wasn't finished! Usually they've also assumed what I was going to say too.

"I think the trouble with a service economy is not everyone has good people or customer skills. A lot of people working on tills or reception desks probably aren't suited to the job." Exactly, everyone has different skills and aptitudes but our economy currently isn't diverse enough.

@Graphista but did YOU suggest the viewing of the CCTV or not? Your posts contradict each other.