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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Help - Royal Mail paternity leave query

67 replies

ostrich · 03/06/2019 15:16

Hi,

A friend has had a (lovely) baby with his wife, but the labour was five days and ended in a c-section.
Mum and Dad are both exhausted with very little sleep. With the c-section, Mum will have a limits on her mobility in addition to the exhaustion.

Does anyone have experience with Royal Mail paternity? My friend is trying to contact his union but is going round in circles at the hospital and really stressed.

He was off work for the five days before their baby was finally delivered - then their baby was born, and he thinks paternity leave 'should' start from then. Is that the case? His manager is saying that the paternity started from the first day my friend was off, which means he'll be back at work a lot sooner than he wanted. He doesn't care about the money or anything, he just needs the fortnight from the birth to be off work.

Any advice or experience gratefully received on their behalf. They are on their knees.

OP posts:

Littleduckeggblue · 03/06/2019 15:20

Gov websites states that leave can not start until Baby is born

BitchPeas · 03/06/2019 15:21

It would have started from the time he was off. Could he arrange with his manager for those 5 days to be unpaid leave and start paternity from the day the baby was born?

Onatreebyariver · 03/06/2019 15:22

So did he take the 5 days off as annual leave?

It sounds like he didn’t. It sounds like he took it as paternity leave.

Maternity leave doesn’t start from the second the baby is born, it starts from when you stop turning up to work before the baby is born. So some women stop work 2 weeks before it’s born. Some 2 months. All of those women have to go back to work earlier than if they’d started their leave the day the baby is born.

That’s life. What does your friend think the 5 days he had off should be classed as?

Teddybear45 · 03/06/2019 15:22

Tell him to contact HR by email and cc the manager.

Original poster

ostrich · 03/06/2019 15:22

Thank you Littleduckeggblue. I don't know how my friend can persuade his manager that is the case.

I have told him to go to his doctor and say he can't perform his sorting or delivery with no sleep, anxiety, headaches, etc. He is shaking from coffee consumption, it's not right.

OP posts:

Ijustdontcare · 03/06/2019 15:24

I don't know about RM specifically, but every workplace I have ever worked the maternity/paternity leave started from the first day off. Although a lot of places will let you use AL/unpaid days to bump either side of the leave if you need to but obviously that's down to local management.

Lazypuppy · 03/06/2019 15:25

Why can't he use annual leave?

My partner used 2 weeks paternity and 2 weeks annual leave

Celebelly · 03/06/2019 15:26

Paternity leave cannot start before the birth (this is stated on government website) so the days prior will either need to be annual leave or compassionate leave (or unpaid). He should still get his whole paternity entitlement.

Celebelly · 03/06/2019 15:27

www.gov.uk/paternity-pay-leave/leave

Hiphopopotamous · 03/06/2019 15:27

Getting a sick note to cover this is inappropriate. I'd not recommend going to the doctors as you've suggested.

He needs to use his annual leave or take it unpaid.

GabriellaMontez · 03/06/2019 15:27

So what were the 5 days before?

Celebelly · 03/06/2019 15:30

Can he not just contact HR directly and get them to speak to his manager?

DoNotDisturbPlease · 03/06/2019 15:30

Get him to go to docs and signed off with stress. Fuck the unhelpful uncaring manager.

TokyoSushi · 03/06/2019 15:30

What did he arrange to use the 5 days before as?

TheBrockmans · 03/06/2019 15:34

Carer's leave for his wife might cover a few days before the birth. Think that is what dh's manager put it down as.

mrsm43s · 03/06/2019 15:34

I think he can have 2 weeks from the birth date.

However, the 5 days before the birthday will not be paternity, so he will have to cover them with annual leave or unpaid leave.

He needs to talk to his manager. But, in a nutshell, he doesn't get an extra 5 days paid leave because his wife was 5 days in labour. He gets 2 weeks leave (presuming RM are Stat Pat Leave), and any other days taken need to be covered by some kind of leave.

It really makes no difference if he takes 5 days from the day he was off annual leave, followed by 2 weeks pat leave or 2 weeks pat leave from the day he was off followed by 5 days annual leave. The first is technically correct, but the outcome of either is exactly the same.

Loubylou79 · 03/06/2019 15:47

That’s life unfortunately. Some people can not afford to take any paternity leave. Having a baby is exhausting, you get though it somehow but it will be exhausting for the foreseeable future. It would be unlikely that his partner was in established labour for the entire 5 days so maybe he didn’t need to be with her for all that time and could’ve been at work but I obviously don’t know the whole story.

Lavellan · 03/06/2019 15:52

Surely in this case "start of birth" is effectively start of hospital stay, not actual c-section day. It sucks, hopefully he can beg or borrow some extra days off either holiday or unpaid.

Celebelly · 03/06/2019 15:54

There are two separate issues being conflated here.

His paternity leave cannot LEGALLY begin before the baby is born. His paternity leave cannot have started in those five days prior to birth. He is entitled to his full two weeks from the baby's DoB.
He has to come to an agreement with his work about the five days prior to the birth, whether that be taken as unpaid, annual or compassionate league. But it does not affect his entitlement to his paternity leave.

To those saying 'That's life' etc. No, it's not. That's not how paternity leave works.

gingerpaleandproud · 03/06/2019 18:24

Some people on here are being quite mean. The OP has said that the fiend doesn't care about getting paid, he just wants the two weeks off he is entitled to starting from the day the baby was born.

@ostrich hopefully he can get hold of his union rep, but he does need to show his boss the information on his rights to PL in law. He then needs to negotiate how they manage the leave he had before the baby was delivered, be annual leave or unpaid leave. I wish him luck.

ScreamScreamIceCream · 03/06/2019 21:17

Then he needs to take annual leave or unpaid leave.

iolaus · 03/06/2019 21:44

I believe the paternity starts from when you ask it to start (in this case 5 days earlier when he rang to say he wouldn't be in because she was in labour)

I know with mine - one I went into labour after he finished work before a week of annual leave, the other he rang them at 4am to say the baby had been born at 2 and he wouldn't be in

Celebelly · 03/06/2019 21:46

No, statutory paternity leave can only start after the baby is born (see the link I posted higher up in the thread). The time off he had prior to the birth cannot be paternity, it has to be either unpaid, annual or discretionary leave.

arethereanyleftatall · 03/06/2019 21:55

He still has 9 days before he goes back to work, even if the 5 days count. (I don't know). It seems premature to be talking about too many headaches for sorting mail. He can sleep some time during those 9 days?
It's horrid being in labour for so long, mine was 3 days, so not as bad, but dh went to work during those 3 days, on standby for if my contractions ever actually made an arsing difference to my dilation.
I think just talk to hr or his manager, he may well get compassionate or unpaid leave.

SEsofty · 03/06/2019 21:59

What did he take the five days as? Annual leave or unpaid leave? He can only have two weeks paid paternity leave.

So is the issue that he is not being allowed to take a week annual leave adjunct to paternity leave?

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